Possible Divine Changes

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Possible Divine Changes Empty Possible Divine Changes

Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:51 pm

So, I had a few minutes at lunch today and typed up the outlines of a couple of changes I'm considering making concerning clerics, divine favors, and piety.

Clerics:

I'm considering replacing the "granted spells" items with a set of radial menu feats for each cleric (and druids). Basically, every priest would get a set of 5 granted spells (which set would vary depending on the deity), each spell usable once per day. Just like the granted spells now, they would scale with level. The old granted spells would be removed from the game completely.

Proposed granted spell feats:
Spoiler:

• Andra (druids)
become the forest (polymorph to tree shape) (add tree appearance) (2nd)
entangle (4th)
summon dire wolf (6th)
summon dire bear (10th)
summon shambling mound (18th)
• Aquar
hold person (3rd)
water breathing (5th)
barrier of ice (7th)
ice storm (9th)
geyser (13th)
• Asis
cure light wounds (1st)
cure moderate wounds (3rd)
cure serious wounds (5th)
cure critical wounds (7th)
heal (9th)
• Borzig
gust of wind (1st)
call lightning (5th)
dominate animal (7th)
ice storm (9th)
storm of vengeance (17th)
• Conflagral
flame strike (5th)
wall of fire (7th)
fire shield (9th)
firestorm (13th)
great retribution (13th)
• Dalix
protection from evil (1st)
hold person (3rd)
minor globe of invulnerability (7th)
stoneskin (11th)
hold monster (13th)
• Gort
expeditious retreat (1st)
haste (7th)
freedom of movement (9th)
teleport (13th)
word of recall (17th)
• Harcorth
negative energy ray (1st)
sound burst (3rd)
water breathing (5th)
negative energy burst (7th)
water of the depths (15th) (drowns even those that can normally breath water)
• Jewel
charm person (1st)
enhanced charm (3rd) (ignores spell resistance)
charm monster (7th)
dominate person (9th)
enhanced domination (17th) (ignores spell resistance)
• Kalas
hold person (2nd)
glyph of warding (3rd)
clairaudience/clairvoyance (5th)
true seeing (9th)
hold monster (14th)
• Lysis
true strike (1st)
bestow curse (3rd)
kiss of lysis (9th)
protection from spells (11th)
mind blank (15th)
• Mystara
mage armor (1st)
magic missile (3rd)
barrier of force (9th)
summon monster VII (13th)
mordenkainen's disjunction (17th)
• Prizimal
searing light (3rd)
darkness (3rd)
sun sword (7th)
dark bolt (9th)
sunbeam (13th)
• Ragnor
negative energy ray (1st)
bull's strength (3rd)
chaos hammer (7th)
acid fog (11th)
insanity (15th) (confusion effect for 3d6+2 rounds)
• Ralth
magic weapon (1st)
bull's strength (3rd)
keen edge (5th)
barrier of iron (9th)
blade barrier (11th)
• Sorgath
bestow curse (3rd)
invisibility (5th)
poison (9th)
improved invisibility (11th)
horrid wilting (17th)
• Terris
crag's armor of stone (1st)
earthen rupture (5th)
stoneskin (7th)
barrier of stone (9th)
crushing stone (13th) (flying boulder, big damage)
• Torgat
bull's strength (1st) (+1d4+1 Str)
enhanced bull's strength (3rd) (+5 Str)
divine power (5th)
aura of vitality (13th)
giant's strength (13th)
• Typhis
gust of wind (1st)
call lightning (5th)
chain lightning (11th)
tempest's microburst (13th)
tempest's protective gale (15th)
• Zolaras
animate dead (5th)
phantasmal killer (7th)
create undead (9th)
control undead (11th)
skeletal guardian (18th)

Divine Favors & Piety:

Another change I'm considering is to the divine favors. Instead of things happening randomly, each favor would be activated by the PC as a feat. Instead of random chance, this means that all PCs could control if/when the favor becomes active.

To put some limitation on such use of the divine favors, each would cost points of piety to use. The cost would not scale with level, but the amount of piety gained through donating gold at altars would be scaled downward so that those with lots of gold aren't just "purchasing" power from a god.

Proposed divine favor changes with costs:
Spoiler:

• Andra
animal help - summon wolf for 12 hours/12 pts (or less if not enough points)
• Aquar
breath water - 12 hours/12 pts (or 1 hour per point, which ever is lower)
• Asis
heal self - 1 point per point of damage (up to max HP)
• Borzig
lightning - all enemies nearby, 50 dmg/50 pts (or less, DC 10 + 1/10 level)
• Conflagral
fire - all enemies nearby, 50 dmg/50 pts (or less, DC 10 + 1/10 level)
• Dalix
protection - +10 deflection AC for 10 rounds/20 pts (or less, if not enough points)
• Gort
transference - 50 pts
• Harcorth
shark help - underwater only, summon shark for 12 hours/pts (or less)
• Jewel
charm - all enemies nearby, 1 minute/50 pts ( DC 10 + 1/10 level)
• Kalas
detain - all enemies nearby, 2 rounds/50 pts ( DC 10 + 1/10 level)
• Lysis
fate's aid - create "escape bracer" with one use (100 points)
• Mystara
spellblock - hostile casters get 100% spell failure ( DC 10 + 1/10 level), 4 rounds/50 pts
• Prizimal
night to day - hostile undead/shapechangers nearby suffer damage 50 dmg/50 pts (or less, DC 10 + 1/10 level)
• Ragnor
disorientation - nearby enemies are confused, 1 minute/50 pts ( DC 10 + 1/10 level)
• Ralth
extra skill - +10 to all Craft skills, 2 minutes/30 points (or less)
• Sorgath
poison cloud - enemies nearby are poisoned ( DC 10 + 1/10 level), 50 pts
• Terris
stoneskin -10 rounds/20 points (or less)
• Torgat
battleready - +4 Str/Con/Dex, 10 rounds/20 points (or less)
• Typhis
zephyr - haste effect 10 rounds/50 pts (or less)
• Zolaras
skeletal help - summon skeleton ally, 12 hours/12 pts (or less)


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Post by MannyJabrielle on Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:56 pm

I like it Very Happy
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Post by RayvenNightkind on Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:30 pm

Very nice
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Post by RustyDios on Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:41 pm

Me too..... the radial Cleric feats sounds ace, and the diety favour feat sounds good too... although I like the randomness of the current system.. ... ... would there be a way to have the use/day for that be just 1/day but the feat get "refreshed" at random (possibly with a message stating "Your diety grants you a favour", or some such as an indicator it has been renewed)...

.. I still like the idea that favour use costs piety, but in the event of no piety (for new guys and people with little time to play/pray/pay/sacrifice everything) it defaults to the current system?.. ...

I'm liking this change so far....

(PS I think Andra's favour should be a summoned Dire Bear, not a Wolf.. like it was before the entangle effect)

(..and I'll assume the rest of the cleric stuff stays the same, such as Aquars water breathing ability, Mystara's magic immunities or Terris' DR)
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:58 pm

Yes, the "non spell" benefits of clerics would remain the same. Some clerics would end up losing one or more granted spells, some would gain some.

The more powerful dire bear will be a granted spell summon for druids, who really need the backup sometimes. Even a lowly wolf makes for an excellent extra attacker/meatshield. The favors are meant to be nice, but not essential for success...no character should have to rely on his/her deity to prosper.

If I make this change, it will apply to all, no matter the level or amount of piety (the gods like devotion by their followers of all levels).

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Post by Anthroplayer on Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:16 am

1/day? Sounds few in amount since if the cleric/druids gains levels, the spell could become pointless... and lower level cleric/druids will have limits that would be new to overcome and possibly for some of them, more difficult.

Could the low level ones increase by 1 use per day for every new divine power feat acquired, to a max of 3 (possibly with 2 or 1 for the higher level ones).

I like the piety things, they sound very useful. However... the changes of what happens could be problematic. Everyone can easily get piety and spend it, but some piety based powers would be useless depending of class and level. It could be fun if they would randomize between several spells when used (as the same deity can offer aid in different ways) and it could be helpful if the piety powers were things that would be extremely useful based on the both the deity's domain as well as the deity's worshippers preferred tasks.

For instance, Andra's followers are not always druids, some are rangers, and rangers including other followers of Andra that are not druid are not protected from wild things. Andra could give a piety favor that provides either protection from natures inhabitants or charms/calms/dominates wild animals/beasts/vermin.

Followers of Aquar could in addition to being able to breath water have other aquatic assistance. Aquar's followers can perhaps get a aquatic defender when the follower already is water breathing (from a non-favor or spell of course). They could perhaps even use the favor to improve chances of catching fish?

Likewise Harcorth in addition of its current favor could do Aquar's other favors perhaps? Afterall, they are both gods that have domain over the same realm, even if one is neutral and the other is neutral evil (barely an alignment difference, and Aquar is Harcorth's parent!).

Asis's favor could heal allies instead of self when the character has either high or full hp. This could be useful for a PC group or someone that is using either henchmen, summons, or companions.

Confragal and Borzig could provide protection of the elements they normally would harm with.

Ragnor could have a harm effect happen on a nearby enemy.

Sorgath could possibly have a similar effect to confusion (being a god of deception and lies, he can turn people against eachother or wander, yes?).

Jewel can boost the tumble and perform skills respectively, which would help both bards and characters who have at least 1 rank in tumble.

Ralth could temporarily improve equipment held (boost an item's current enchancment by 1 or more?).

Terris could use the earth to trap enemies (much like a stonehold spell).

Torgat can enhance weapon efficiency in addition to other things like boosting a physical stat...

Typhis can make ranged weapons and ranged touch spells miss with winds.

Kalas can perform a detect alignment function, or boost lore and appraise simultaneously, like Jewel's simultaneous skill boost or Ralths triple skill boost.

Lysis can give a boost to saves, like +4 all saves (like a four leaf clover power? giggles).

Zoloras can temporarily stun hostile undead or turn them even.

Finally, Prizimal, being a god worshipped by a diverse amount of patrons (both shadows, lycans, and those who hunt shadows and lycans), can add bonuses based on whether the follower is one of such beings (a shadowchild or vampire could be given refuge during daylight, lycans could gain silver resistance or even the stat boosts gained during fullmoons, and non-beings like that could gain an attack bonus versus vampires, shadows, lycans, and other nocturnal beings).

Finally, on some of the granted spells for clerics... some deities have similar goals or plans for their followers, or similar domains... can the following be done?:
Terris, Typhis, Aquar, Confragal, Borzig, all are elemental, why not let them each have a type of summon elemental spell, as well as elemental resistance spells?
Torgat and Ragnor are both worshipped by those who engage in hostile conflict, and while very different from eachother, can both get some combat enhancing spells in addition to their current ones? Blood Frenzy is a druid spell that has the same effect as Barbarian Rage. Give that to them.
This server seems to only use the Fireshield Red spell. I've yet to find a Fireshield Blue spell, which is the same as Red except does Ice damage. Why not give these to Borzig?
Finally, give Zoloras spells for specifically combating undead in addition to controlling or making undead. She is a deity of death primarily, undeath is merely something she tolerates, as by her description and dogma.
Gort could use claurivoyance in addition to his current list, as it does assist in traveling.
Kalas and Dalix could use clarity and similar to maintain a pure mind.
Finally, Andra is a goddess of nature. Right now the server makes her look like a goddess of trees.
Nature includes more than plants and the animals around those plants... maybe Andra could get other nature related spells?

Thats basically it. Even if nothing I suggest gets added I'd still like your changes to be implemented The Amethyst Dragon.
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Post by RustyDios on Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:18 am

Wow.... that's a long list of good ideas...

I like the idea of the favour being a random one when the feat is selected... takes away the random timings, but replaces it with a random favour... no mortal should know what favour their diety will bestow when asking for one.. this then ties in with an unlim/day but cost piety system better in my view... scripting wise it shouldn't be too difficult (roll dx, switch #, on use of a favour)... .... ...

I like these changes, we're really bringing the gods into Aenea, and as they are such an important part of the whole set-up (from day 1, you choose your patron and cannot change it), this really impacts my immersion into the world for the better...
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Post by Eric of Atrophy on Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:38 am

I agree with RustyDios as far as the immersion element is concerned! And Anthroplayer, your list of ideas is absolutely swelligant! But I wonder if making the favor system more robust would consume precious scriptive resources?
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Post by Grooiam on Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:02 am

When you say divine favour, is that as in the case of my cleric of Mystara(Zach Diams) will you be replacing the favour of the immune to spell schools he has or the favour that randomly happens that supposed to give him spell resistance? Curious because as a demon spawn he has SR and as a lvl 22 cleric he has immunity to 4 spell schools currently.
The granted spell items, he has them all currently and uses none of them, most he cast as spells himself, 1(summon creature 9) as you know there is still an outstanding issue with his magical gelugon not following him. The proposed new spells, maybe disjunction he may use one day.
I've been told by players the only way to get permenant haste items is to worship Gort, any chance that can be changed, as a cleric he has no haste spells.
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Post by daveyeisley on Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:48 pm

Il ike the changes, and anthroplayers ideas are top notch here! I know it would be an awful lot of work though...
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:23 am

Favor is the random thing. Granted spells are currently the little "holy symbol" items that let you cast spells. The immunities to certain spells are something else.

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Post by inthecorridors on Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:49 am

I like the idea of being able to buy favors with piety points. I'm not sure how I feel about the specific costs (the Gort one seems a little high I guess), but I think I'd just have to see it implemented before I could really judge. I also like the idea of the menu-based rather than item based favors.

But... it's what the favors ARE that I think could use a little tweaking. The above poster is right that a lot of the granted spells just don't get bothered with in practice esp at higher levels. I notice that there are no epic grants. A lot of deities don't give their clerics new powers or spells at epic levels (only half a handful give stuff at 20 and only Mystara that I saw gives stuff at actually epic levels of cleric).
I guess I just feel like in a world like Aenea where there are very definite, visible, obvious effects of piety and interaction with the gods, there is little incentive to play a pure cleric, where I think there should be some sort of bonus for pure clerics of a very high level (besides singleclass XP). I'm sure the gods do appreciate the worship of followers of all levels, but it seems to me that someone who is completely dedicated to their patron's service ought to be granted some sort of bonus at say, 30th and 40th levels, from ALL deities, not just Mystara.
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Post by Grooiam on Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:11 am

I came up with some ideas of my own for Mystara clerics.

Divine Favour- Stays as is, gaining spell school immunties as is currently.

Mystara's Favour- Lvl 1-10- Barkskin, duration extends per lvl
Lvl 11-20- Stoneskin, duration extends per lvl
Lvl 21+- Greater Stoneskin, duration extends per lvl

Granted spells/feats/abilities-
Lvl 1- +2 intell
Lvl 3- Haste spell, 1 per day, duration 1/2 hour per lvl
Lvl 5- +2 Craft armour/weapons/items skill points
Lvl 7- Craft/imbue item(magical etc) feat
Lvl 9- +1 craft skill(to all current know crafts)
Lvl 11- Haste 2 per day
Lvl 13- +1 craft skill
Lvl 15- +6 Lore skill
Lvl 17- +2 craft skill
Lvl 19- Summon creature/beast, based on cleric's
race/subrace & allignment.

That's my proposal.. What a Face What a Face What a Face
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Post by Svair on Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:07 pm

If Haste were to become a granted ability for Clerics of Mystara (especially w/ a duration of .5 hr/level), I'd make one as soon as this was implemented. As it stands, a Cleric of Mystara is already on my list of my 'Cast of Thousands' as the Spell School immunities are quite powerful in of themselves. Very Happy
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