The Bard Class

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The Bard Class

Post by MannyJabrielle on Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:15 pm

Since I get asked alot about tips for making bard characters in-game, here's a post with answers to the most common things to know This advice is given based on the concept of a pure-class bard, or a multiclassed bard with a vast majority of bard levels. I'll make a note in the given tip about partial bards as certain things are good for a pure class, but not so much for a multiclassed, and vice-versa.

Stats:
Charisma. Bards can branch out into several different types of play, strength based meleers, dex based archers, skilled semi-rogues, but for each type, charisma is of course the most important stat. It affects bard song, spell DCs, and key skills such as UMD and taunt. It's probably not as important to pump charisma to the max for a bard as it would be for a sorcerer or smite-paladin/CoD, but a reasonably high charisma never hurts. Bard spells go up to level 6, so a charisma score of 16 minimal will be needed to cast all the bard spells.

Skills:
Bards get a very healthy skill point per level allowance, 6 + Int modifier per level. They also have a wide range of useful skills to spend on.

UMD is a great skill, allows you to use restricted magic items otherwise not available to you, and also scroll use. UMD is a charisma skill, so your charisma modifier is added to your UMD checks for scrolls. I generally find a UMD score of 25 is sufficient to make use of most, if not all magic items. UMD uses a modified roll for the checks as well, so the score you see on your character sheet is the score getting used.

Appraisal. Gets you more gold for you loot, and lowers the prices on junk you buy. I've found that an appraise score of 15 to 25 nets the best numbers all around. Appraisal is an intelligence skill.

Discipline is a good skill for avoiding active combat feats such as knockdown, as well as being used in checks vs the spell Sphere of Denial, and also against the bardsong "quaking chorus". Not many enemies in aenea currently use active combat feats, although dracolichs do use it often enough that it may be worth investing some points into this skill. Discipline's a STR based skill.

*edit* Also, consider how discipline is used. The DC for instances such as disarm or knockdown is the modified attack roll of your attacker. If you're going to put points into discipline, it's best to max it out, and try to keep it as close to your functioning AC as possible. If an attack roll is punching through your 55 AC, 10 or 15 discipline isn't going to help you at all with avoiding KDs or disarms.

Lore. Bards have the "bardic knowledge" feat, which adds their bard class level to lore checks. For a pure-class bard, this means you can actually get away with not investing a single point into the lore skill, and still end up with more than enough lore skill to identify any item currently found in-game. Around 25 lore is all that is needed to identify any item currently found in-game, and bards, like wizards and sorcerers, get a "legend lore" granted spell which will identify any item as well (limited to 2 uses per rest period however). I have no solid evidence of it either, but I do believe that lore skill plays a good part in the "creature lore" feat. Don't hold me to it, but if you have that feat, it may not hurt to invest a decent amount of points into the lore skill.

*edit* Lore skill plays a critical roll in the creature lore feat. I can't seem to find the post anymore with the specifcs, but more lore is good for this feat. For my own pure class bard, Alastair, with maxed lore skill, his creature lore AB rivals that of say, tensors transformation cast by a high (30+) wiz/sorc, or a casting of Divine Power (which boosts a character's AB to that of a pureclass fighter of equal character level). For pure class meleeing bards, I would consider creature lore + maxed lore skill a must.

Tumble. A class skill for bards, tumble will grant you +1 AC per 5 base ranks in tumble skill (base is your unmodified tumble skill). In short, 40 tumble grants +8 AC. The AC bonus from tumble ranks is not affected by your armor check penalty, although tumble checks for moving through combat *is* affected. The DC for tumble checks is fixed, so 14 tumble (the modified score as it appears on your character sheet) is sufficient for avoiding AoO's. Armor check penalties, and skill lowering effects will affect the tumble check for AoO's. The AC from tumble ranks is of the "other natural" AC category, however, like dodge AC, it will be lost when caught flatfooted. And unlike dodge AC, the feat uncanny dodge will not prevent the loss of tumble AC when caught flatfooted.

Taunt. A taunt makes a check of your taunt skill vs the opponents concentration skill check. If successful, your taunt will lower your enemy's AC by the difference of the skill check to a max of -6 for 5 rounds, and the target will suffer a 30% spell failure as well for that duration. For a charisma based bard, this is an excellent way to effectively gain +6 AB against the target, and while it's often a difficult check vs dedicated spellcasters, that 30% failure can be very helpful. Taunt is a charisma skill.

Bards also receive hide and move silently as class skills. For stealthy types, this is a good thing.

Spellcraft. For every 5 points in your modified spellcraft skill, you receive a +1 saves vs spells. With a maxed spellcraft (43) and 14 intelligence (+2 to int based skills), a bard will have +9 on saves vs spells. Spellcraft is also necessary for identifying spells others cast, and in turn, for counter-spelling. Charisma based casters (bards and sorcerers) make excellent counter-spellers due to their spells per day usage.

Perform. Absolutely necessary for bardsong, curse song, and the aenean custom bard songs. Even for a bard not going for curse song or the aenean bardsongs, this skill still affects how effective the basic bardsong ability is (to get the absolutely maximized effects of barsong, a PC requires 30 bard levels and 100 perform skill, although the benefits between the song effect from 50 or so perform and the song effect from 100 perform are minimal (a difference of 2 AC, 11 skills boosts, 20 or so temp HP). For the custom aenaen songs, a reasonably high perform skill is necessary, although not as extreme as the basic bardsong. The various songs and effects I'll cover in their own section.

Feats:
There's a couple bard-only feats worth mentioning. Whether to take them or not also depends on if one is a pure class bard or multiclassed bard.

Artist - One of the 1st level only feats, it adds +2 to your perform skill. If a feat is worth the +2 is up to each person I suppose... it may be a decent investment for a human character with a bonus feat at level one, but maybe not so much for other races who receive only 1 feat at 1st level.

Extra Music - Grants 4 extra bardsong uses per rest period. For a pureclass bard, this feat is actually a huge waste, as by 40th level, you'll have 40 bard song uses. Even for a multiclassed character with 20 bard levels, this feat can be a huge waste. It *is* however, very usefull to PCs with very few bard levels who wish to have a few extra song uses. I'd generally say if you have 10, or even 15 or fewer bard levels, this feat is worth the investment. More than 15 bard, a waste though.

*edit* With the new bardsong system, this feat gains some utility for songsingers even at higher levels. More bardsongs is like more spellslots for wizards/sorcs... so if you find that even at epic levels you're switching songs two or three times per encounter, 4 more song uses can be useful if you have a feat to burn.

Lingering Song - Increases bard song duration by 5 rounds (by itself, bardsong lasts 10 rounds). For a pureclass bard, this one is a tossup. With 40 bardsong uses per day, you're unlikely to runout of songs in a given adventure anyhow, although the extra five rounds is nice for avoiding breaking the flow of combat every turn to reactivate bardsong. Like extra music, the less bard levels you have, the more value this feat has.

Lasting Inspiration - Like lingering Song, this feat extends your bardsong duration by a factor of 10. It stacks with Lingering song, but that feat is applied after this one (for a total of 10 rounds, not 150 rounds). The requirements are 20 bard, 25 perform.

*edit... complete overhaul edit* With the overhaul to bardsongs (in short, being able to cancel songs, and even just switch song effects mid-song... this feat gains a lot of value. You can comfortably burn through song uses in an encounter switching from one song to the next as needed, and only need one or two bardsong uses afterwards for an extended dose of soothing refrain to heal up, or traveler's chant to speed your way back to town. Without Lasting Inspiration, a high level bard could still hold out through an extended encounter, but possibly come up lacking for songs without taking a nap or drinking down a renewal potion afterwards.


Spell Casting Feats - although bards are arcane spell casters, they wont meet the requirements for epic spells or epic spell feats such as auto-still spell. However, they can still find use for such feats as still spell. Bards do not have a wide array of attack spells as sorcerers or wizards, but feats such as combat casting can still be helpfull. Still spell can be of benefit for bards who wear armor (bards get light and medium armor proficiencies, as well as shield use). With very few attack spells, spell penetration isn't of much use to bards. Empower is good for the stat boost spells such as bulls strength and cat's grace, as is maximize. The bard's best and only substantial attack spell however is a 6th level spell, which a bard cannot empower, or maximize.

*edit* A notable quirk of NWN and bonus spells. If you have an item that grants an extra bard spell of level 7 through 9, while bard's don't have 7th through 9th level spells, that slot can be used for a meta-magic spell. Also note, just a single extra spell slot of those levels costs oodles on a voucher item. Pricewise, it would be a quaint oddity to have, but not anything of real benefit efficiency wise.

Other feats... depends on the build you're going for. Bards can branch out into STR based, DEX based... there's various possibilities. Bards don't get many feats however, so while many possibilities are open, a single bard character can really only focus on one, maybe two really well.

Spells:
Bards have a number of buff spells, and a couple attack spells. The buffs are the meat of the bard spell book. The attack spells worth mentioning are ice storm, soundburst, and dirge. Dirge will lower enemy strength and dexterity while they're within range (and they fail their fortitude save). They get their stats restored when they leave the area of effect. Soundburst deals some minor sonic damage, and stuns if the enemy fails the save. The damage is 1d8 sonic, no scaling to level. The stun is a will save and lasts for 2 rounds. Ice storm.... works just as the wizard/sorc/druid version. Spell resistance applies, but there's no save, does decent damage (ice and bludgeoning).

Buffs.... Some key spells are improved invisibility (invisibility effect, and more importantly 50% concealment), haste, the stat buffs (bulls, cats, ect), greater magic weapon/keen weapon, mass haste, ethereal visage (+3 DR, 25% concealment, immune to 3rd and lower level spells), energy buffer (/40 elemental resistances). Good spells to have known.

Also of note is "warcry", which adds +2 damage/+2 AB, enemies within range suffer a fear effect if they fail the save, but the AB and damage boosts is the meat of this spell.

Summon ally.... bring in the cavalry... what's not to love about that?

Healing Magic. Bards get the cure line of spells, healing circle, neutralize poison and cure disease spells. While effective at lower levels, they're often not so much at higher levels (although hey, healing a few HP in a pinch with cure critical wounds could save ya from the great hall). Neutralize poison is a great spell for if you have no poison immunity and don't want to risk a failed fort save sending you off to the great hall.

Darkness, Ultravision. Darkness and ultravision are GREAT spells to use in combination for attacks. With ultravision in effect, you'll be able to see through the darkness effect, but the enemy will not unless they as well have ultravision or true seeing. Enemies under the effect of darkness are denied their sneak/death attacks, cannot target you normally, and likewise, grant YOU sneak attack damage (provided you have sneak attack) even while the enemy is facing you. There's currently a glitch with the darkness spell to be aware of... if you cast ultravision or true seeing while in the darkness field of effect, it fubars, and applies the darkness to you and effectively applies ultravision to your enemies. In the case of true-seeing, it also renders everyone (npcs, other PCs) to act as if invisible to you (cannot target them directly, they are invisible, appear only when you come right up nose to nose with them). Making sure to cast ultravision/true seeing while NOT under the effect of the darkness spell will avoid this however.


Last edited by MannyJabrielle on Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:59 am; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : Updated information)
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Re: The Bard Class

Post by MannyJabrielle on Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:15 pm

Abilities (songs):
The meat of the bard class.

Bards get a bard song use per class level. The power of the song's effect depends on their class level and perform skill. The table for bard song and curse song can be found on the NWNWiki. The basics of it are, if you have X levels and X perform skill, you'll get Y effect. If you have X level, but not the perform skill listed for that level of song, you'll only get the effect for which both your class level and perform level qualify for. For the tables on the aenean custom bard songs, one can refer to the specific song's feat description in their character sheet/feat selection screen at level up.

Curse song, and the aenean custom bard songs are taken as optional feats. If you don't want a particular custom bard song, you don't have to take it. If you do want it, you have to burn one of your feats on it. It should also be noted the custom aenean songs work on a different progression table than the default bard song or curse song. The custom songs also have level requirements ranging up to 40 bard levels, whereas default bard song and curse song only require 30 bard levels at most. The perform requirements for the max effect are lower than the perform requirement for the max effect of bardsong/curse song. The custom songs also switch to 5 level tier increments in the epic levels (their power increases at levels 25, 30, 35, 40).

All bard songs have a range of 30 feet, last for 10 rounds (15 with lingering song, 100 with lasting inspiration, 105 with both lasting inspiration and lingering song). A bard cannot sing while deafened, or otherwise unable to use spells or abilities that require a verbal component. Only one bard song can be active at a time. Using bardsong does not break invisibility/greater sanctuary effects, although in the case of songs that inflict damage (curse song, several aenean custom songs), the affected enemies will flock up around you, but however will not be able to attack you. Some songs have a DC to their effect. The bard's charisma modifier is added to the DC.

As of this date (April 3rd, 09), not all the custom bard songs work, and some only work partially. The following is a list of the songs, what they do (or supposed to do) and my personal opinion of how useful they are/could be.

Default Bard song
Applies a bonus to the bard and allies within range. The bonuses include boosts to AB, AC, Damage rolls, saves, and skill checks. The range depends on the bard level and perform skills. The AC provided is dodge AC. The damage bonus will be listed in your character sheet as bludgeoning, but is actually the damage type of your weilded weapon. The attack/damage bonus is applied to the character, not their weapon. Multiple bard's singing bard song.... Characters already under the effect of a bardsong are not affected by a second bard singing, even if his or her bardsong is stronger than the one they are currently under.

Bardsong is very helpful for making skill checks (not the custom aenean checks such as climb/swim as far as I know), as well as providing a buff to AC/AB in combat. It affects all allies within range, thus makes a great mass buff. The effect of the song is applied only to allies within range at the time the song is activated Allies coming into range of the bard after the song has been activated do not receive the benefits, even if the song is still going.

Curse Song
The mirror opposite of bardsong, curse song affects enemies within range, reducing their AB, AC, skills, and saves. There is a damage component to this song as well, but instead of reducing the enemies' damage rolls, it directly damages the enemies (magical damage). Like bard song, creatures already under the effect of curse song are not affected by a second curse song. The negative effects of the curse song can be removed by resting, restoration spells/effects, but not however, dispels or remove curse spells, as curse song is neither magic, nor an official "curse". The damage effect is applied once, at the start of the song, there is no round to round application of the damage.

Like bardsong, curse song is applied to enemies within range at the time the song is activated. Enemies who come within range after the activation do not receive the penalties, even if the song's still in effect. Tactically, that makes this song useful vs a single, or small group (as many who are within range) of tough opponents who you may be facing down for an extended period of time (IOW, a horde of orc destroyers.... somewhat pointless against a mob of goblins who might actually be killed from the initial damage burst of the song.

Somnific Lullaby
Will cause enemies within range to fall asleep, much like the spell "Sleep". Unlike the spell, the effect is not limited to creatures of 4HD or less. The HD that you can affect is tied into your bard level/perform skill. The sleep effect has a DC roll, and is negated by mental effects immunity, such as mindblank, clarity, and the "sleepless" feat of elves and half-elves. Currently there's a glitch with this song in that when you activate it, the sleep effect will stack with any other bard songs you sing later on. To break this stacking glitch, log out and back in.

This is a very useful song against enemies with little or no resistance to mental effects. The sleep affect fires off each round the song is in effect, so even if you 'wake' an enemy by bashing them over the head with your weapon, they may very well fall asleep again the next round. The effect of this song travels with the bard.

Hymn of the Fire
This one acts much like curse song in that it applies penalties to the enemies within range. The specific penalites are listed in the feat description of the song (which I dont' have off hand, but I believe include AB and Damage penalties, stat penalties to STR and CON). It also applies an initial fire damage at the start of the song, and subsequent 'burning' damage each round after to affected enemies for the duration of the song.

This is not a bad song at all, although limited in scope. The initial damage burst can be very decent with enough levels, and the burning damage per round is nice as well. Like curse song though, this song is applied only to enemies within range when the song starts, it does not travel with the bard, although enemies who move out of range will still suffer the burning damage/stat penalties for the duration. It's a good troll-killer, ice creature killer, and the stat penalties to enemies are roughly on-par with curse song. The initial damage and damage per round make it superior to curse song, however, fire resistance will render it rather useless, making curse song the better all-round attack song.

Winter's Carol
Like hymn of the fire, applies stat penalties, but has no round-to-round damage. Instead, this one has a chance to freeze enemies. The freeze effect seems temperamental... it doesn't last the duration of the song, although the stat penalties seem to stick. Like curse song and hymn of the fire, this one is applied to enemies within range at the start of the song, and does not travel with the bard. Winter's carol applies a dex penalty, which makes it useful vs archer/finessers. A decent song if you have an extra feat, but overall curse song may be better.

Quaking Chorus
The lord of the songs. Also the one song that is NOT party friendly at all. Applies falling damage round to round, and a knockdown effect to all creatures, friend or foe, within range. The damage is Xd4 depending on bard level/perform skill, from 1d4 at level 1 bard up to a max of 10d4 + 3 times Charisma modifier at level 40 (the level 35-39 song does 10d4 + charisma modifier). The damage is subject to a discipline check for 1/3rd damage, and is also subject to damage reduction of +1 or greater. Knockdown immunity via the item property or spells such as Tempests Stormshield negates the knockdown. The effect travels with the bard.

Even at low levels, this song is excellent for the knockdown effect alone. At higher levels, the knockdown is still a very attractive benefit, but the damage begins to reign as the heart of this song, as the damage is applied each round. At level 40 bard, this song is extremely dangerous to creatures and PCs within range who do not have the discipline or DR to reduce the damage dealt. As noted, this one does NOT discriminate between enemy or ally, so using it in a party can be bad unless you happen to be hunting with PCs who can safely withstand it. If you happen to be singing this song when you die, it's best to wait for it to wear off before going to the dias to appear back in the vale, as it tends to NOT shut off when you come back to life... hitting the asis priest standing there, and putting you on the KoS list with the NPCs in the vale. Great song for solo hunting. This is one song I consider a must for any bard character

Soothing Refrain
Heals damage to the bard and allies within range, HP healed per round is based on bard level, healing a minimal amount of HP at low levels to healing the bard's class levelin HP per round at 40th (40 HP per round over 10, 15, or 105 rounds). The effect travels with the bard.

This song is excellent for party hunting, particularly if you're with a group who tends to take a good amount of damage round to round, acting as a regeneration effect. The higher level the bard, the more powerful the regeneration... at 40HP per round, a 40th level bard can keep many PCs (and himself!) alive through a good amount of punishment. This is one I consider a must for any character of 10 or more bard levels.

Mundane Melody
The song that drives spellcasters batty. It has multiple effects. It applies spell failure to enemy spell casters within range(exact value scales with bard level/perform skill up to 100% failure at 40 bard), has a chance to unequip items from enemies (based on the item's value, scaled to the bard's level, subject to a willsave) and applies spell resistance to all affected by the song except the bard (that means, enemies get uber-SR as well as allies within range) At higher levels, this song will also dismiss summons/familiars under enemy caster control. This song effect travels with the bard, and is applied on a round to round basis.

The item unequipping aspect of this song is questionable, and I found not reliable or that useful, although causing a bandit chief to drop his greatsword can be useful to low/mid level bard's who are otherwise gonna take a beating from said greatsword damage. The spell failure aspect is the heart of this song currently. While only offering as little as 5% failure to enemies at the low levels, at higher levels, it can be very helpful if facing off against a PC or NPC who's shooting off nasty stuff at you like fingers of death, wails of the banshee, or other spells which you'd just rather avoid. In the late-epic levels, it can very effectively neutralize spell casters.

The spell resistance aspect of this song is fixed and working apparently as of this edit. The SR does not apply to the bard singing, but applies to everyone else within range, allies and enemies alike. This can be good or bad depending on how you look at it. Good because your allies get nice beefy SR. Bad because enemies get that same beefy SR, and if the bard level is high enough, it can block the spells from all but the most dedicated caster allies (who are "out of range", but are casting at enemies "in range" of the song).

Given the complete "magic shutdown" of this song, and the somewhat party-unfriendly nature of many of it's effects, this song is not gonna make your caster friends happy, nor your mind-spell vulnerable friends. But it will make your "magic vulnerable" friends happy. It's probably also nice for non-casting applications of SR, like say, beholder eye rays.


Deadman's March
Summons undead creatures of various types depending on bard level, from a lowly zombie at the lower levels, to a dracolich at level 40. The undead creature is under the bard's control.

This song works, but currently there is an issue with custom summons that make this song act a bit wonky. When summoned, the undead creature(s) will indeed be in your party and fight for you, however they will not follow you when you move away, nor respond to any of the radial commands such as stand your ground, defend me, ect. Also, the song will summon an extra creature of appropriate type who is neutral to you, and not in your party. Like the creature in your party, it will fight enemies it sees, but it won't move around at all (unless chasing an enemy it's actively engaged in combat with).

This is one of my personal favorites... how can you not like summoning a pet dracolich?

*edit* There's now a new set of VC Commands, which deals with the wonky summons-not-following-you issue. Type fol help for more information.

Traveller's Chant
Grants movement bonus to the bard and his allies, and movement penalties to enemies. The benefits scale from a movement speed increase for the bard, to a movement increase for the bard and allies, up to haste for both the bard and allies. Penalties range from movement speed penalties at low levels, to a slow effect (hold on failed save) for enemies at 40 bard levels. The effect of this song is applied when the song is activated.

Currently, this song only partially works. Players with lower level bards have told me they receive the movement speed increase, but no haste effect. At 40 bard levels, I receive no movement speed bonuses or haste effect at all. The slow/hold on failed save aspect of the song appears to be working though. The hold/slow effect is applied at the start of the song, and does not travel with the bard on a round to round basis.

Air of the Righteous
Provides a magical boost to all stats, up to +12 at level 40 for good aligned creatures within range, and a penalty to all stats to evil aligned creatures. This song does NOT apply the bonuses/penalties to you when you sing it, but they do apply to your allies/enemies. Level/ability drain immunity on evil creatures will block the stat-drop effect.

Against enemies without level/ability drain immunity, this song will put a hurt on them. Even when they do have that particular immunity, this song will uberize your allies. When this song will be more effective than regular bardsong depends entirely on your allies and their circumstances. Those who already have say, +12 to their most used stats won't benefit. Those who have most of their +12 enhancements won't gain that much. Good aligned allies who are not so heavy on the enhancements though will gain a lot of course.

Verse of the Vile
Same as Air of the Righteous, but applies the benefits to evil aligned creatures and penalties to good aligned creatures. Although I do not have this song on any of my bards, I would assume that it works, as air of the righteous works. Same use strategies apply, just for your evil buddies benefit rather than your good buddies. In short... your paladin friends would not like this song so much, you evil spoony-bard!

Freedom's Anthem
Provides various movement related immunities based on bard level, up to the 40 bard benefit of immunity to petrification, slow, immobilization, and the bigby line of spells. This song did not work at all last time I checked it out.

Ballad of the Wild
Dominates animals (and I think magical beasts as well) depending on bard level. Also applies stat boosts to the dominated wildlife like air of the righteous/verse of the vile.

Last I had this particular feat and used it, it worked, although I do not know if the stat-boosts worked. The domination effect worked just fine though. While it's limited to wildlife only, this song could be useful in conjunction to ranger/druid/shifter levels in assembling an army or animals. The song's domination is shortlived, but with enough power, I suppose one could keep dominating the animals over and over again. I found I used it more at the time to neutralize dire threats to my bard's life by reducing the number of bears that wanted to eat him. honestly though, it wasn't a song I played around too much with, someone else may be able to find a good use for this one.


Last edited by MannyJabrielle on Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:59 am; edited 3 times in total
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Re: The Bard Class

Post by RayvenNightkind on Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:26 pm

Very nice Manny, great thread! All of this is well put and explains everything quite well. Kudos to you sir! Very Happy
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Re: The Bard Class

Post by Svair on Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:48 pm

Good thread.
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Re: The Bard Class

Post by RustyDios on Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:41 am

Ace Thread MJ!... that section on the "forgotten skills" is a must read for ANY class that can take ranks in them, not just bards...
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Re: The Bard Class

Post by Ra Cha Chongo on Sun Apr 05, 2009 1:49 pm

Excellent! Very helpful, thank you! Very Happy
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Re: The Bard Class

Post by hacksawb on Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:34 pm

Any new updates to the Aenean Bard songs?
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Re: The Bard Class

Post by MannyJabrielle on Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:29 pm

Not that I'm aware of, although I haven't really played Alastair much lately, nor does he have all the various bard songs anymore, just the few he used often enough.

When/If I get around to reincarnating him, I'll defintely be playing around with the songs again, seeing what works, what doesn't, and finding new ways to get the most use out of a given song.
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nice job...

Post by Delisha Zrazorian on Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:08 am

Important for us Bard (want-a-bes) to know...

thanks...

DZ
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Re: The Bard Class

Post by MannyJabrielle on Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:48 am

Edited the posts with a few minor updates.
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Re: The Bard Class

Post by MannyJabrielle on Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:17 am

Bump: Tested Air of the Righteous.... and it works. I'm assuming that "Verse of the Vile" does as well, since it does pretty much the same thing as Air.
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Re: The Bard Class

Post by MannyJabrielle on Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:00 am

And a bump on the info for mundane melody. Either the description changed, or I clearly misread it at first... but... the SR aspect does indeed work, just not for the bard. Friends and enemies in range get a SR boost, upwards of the bard's level + cha modifier
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Re: The Bard Class

Post by Maeglin Dubh on Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:45 pm

Could you add in a note about multiclassing and which classes synergize well with the Bard?
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Re: The Bard Class

Post by MannyJabrielle on Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:49 pm

Yes, although with the diverse possibilities, it will be a huge section, will take me a while to put it all together Smile
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Re: The Bard Class

Post by Maeglin Dubh on Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:23 pm

You could split it up by role...
Martial bard, sneaky/skilled bard, magic bard, support bard.
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Re: The Bard Class

Post by eeriegeek on Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:51 pm

There's a nice synergy with the new Copper Dragonsoul for a DEX based build. A halfling or elf bard with one of the DEX subraces and dragonsoul could fairly easily get a DEX of 20 (elf/half) + 2 (subrace) + 10 (levels) + 7 (great dex) + 3 (great dex bonus feats) + 6 (dragonsoul) = 48 before any books or gear! Its a little trickier, but the approach works for a Bard/AA/Dragonsoul as well.
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Re: The Bard Class

Post by MannyJabrielle on Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:02 am

This thread will definitely be getting updated info in the next day or two. Already added in a quick edit about two of the bard feats, and I'll be redoing the info on the songs. The overhaul to Aenean bardsongs has changed things up a LOT.
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Re: The Bard Class

Post by Ramana Jala on Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:01 pm


I've been very appreciative of your hard-won wisdom presented here, Manny!

I'd love to see some more about recent fixes and etc, and especially as regards multi-classing bard.

I'm considering a Bard/ShadowDancer/AA mix.  Bow only, dexterous, shadow-touched, charismatic.  A girl who can be flashy when she wants but undetectable when that's necessary.  Maybe even a full entertainer type like who could end the dance of the seven veils with a disappearing shadowdancer flourish, and more than one or two levels of SD might even be interesting, if there's a real benefit from it.  I'm starting with a hypothesis of 8 Bard / 2 SD / 30 AA, so as to make her maximally and totally effective with only a bow.  Your comments would be helpful, thanks!
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Re: The Bard Class

Post by MannyJabrielle on Sun Apr 13, 2014 2:34 pm

Will be a good while before I can get around to a decent update.  Life's rather busy, and my playtime lately has been taken up with working on my own SP module.
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Re: The Bard Class

Post by Ramana Jala on Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:29 am


Same here, I'll just leave this note in your bonnet for when you have the time to get back to this thread. Wink
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