Hulk SMASH!!!

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Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by daveyeisley on Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:11 pm

So.... another dinky little contest.... lets see how well folks know their Aenea stat building:


What is the absolute highest permanent Strength score possible in Aenea without using enhancement bonuses?

500,000 gold to the winner. If you state a number higher than the one I have calculated, and can back it up with a valid build, you still win (I may learn something here).

Reminder: The only things that are disqualified are *enhancement* bonuses, and any other non-permanent bonuses. The ability point bonuses for levelling up to level 40 *DO* count, among other things.... such as Great Strength feats.
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by Anthroplayer on Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:34 pm

I know this for a fact... its above 70, but below 80.
Also, I'm not counting the books and the like, nor am I counting subraces.
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by RustyDios on Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:42 pm

58 ... though likely to be only 56 (dependent on finding a certain interesting read)...

And that's on a first play.. ie: no reincarnated, ascended or re-lev tricks....
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by MannyJabrielle on Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:59 pm

56. Beastial half orc RDD/Warhulk with the +3 str book, not sure if there's a way to get 58, or any tricks to fudge stats with relevelling/ascension/reincarnation, so it looks like you nailed it.
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by Anthroplayer on Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:27 pm

MannyJabrielle wrote:56. Beastial half orc RDD/Warhulk with the +3 str book, not sure if there's a way to get 58, or any tricks to fudge stats with relevelling/ascension/reincarnation, so it looks like you nailed it.

God your off! Don't you know how many times you can take great strength? And if you focus all points on creation to STR? And then you adding those things, if you have reached 56 as a bestail half-orc that is RDD and WH with a +3 book, you must have placed alot of level up points outside of strength enhancing feats here and there as well as didn't get the full 20 points for being halforc.
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by Anthroplayer on Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:31 pm

Ok, halforc level1 is 20 points, if you enter epic level you can get 10 GS points, thats 30, then 40 divided by 5 is 8, thats 58. This is without RDD. With RDD you could have as much as 8 more STR points. If you epic as RDD abit you can get a full 12, making the total 70. Now, if I add a subrace such as bestial I get 4 more. Thats 70 legally and 4 by leto. adding a book thats 70 legally and 9 leto.
adding WH thats 70 legally and 12 leto.

So you either have the answer as 70 (outside of Aenea) or 82 (the Aenea legal maximum)
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by Anthroplayer on Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:32 pm

Try and get a combination will more STR points, I dare ya, the answer is either 70 or 82, but I think Crideas wants the Aenea standard.
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by MannyJabrielle on Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:49 pm

20 half orc
+4 beastial subrace bonus
+4 warhulk permanent bonus
+10 level up attribute raises (+1 every 4 levels, 5 pre epic, 5 post epic)
+7 great strengths (can only take 7 as no class has great strength as a bonus selectable feat)
+3 strength tome.
+8 RDD bonus
--------
56. Rusty nailed it.
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by RustyDios on Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:58 pm

Manny Jabrielle wrote :

56. Beastial half orc RDD/Warhulk with the +3 str book, not sure if there's a way to get 58, or any tricks to fudge stats with relevelling/ascension/reincarnation, so it looks like you nailed it.
... the end of 58 is because it was rumoured the books do go upto the DnD standard of +5, but I'll be dammned if I ever come across anything higher then +3...

To Anthroplayer:

Please tell me the build that allows all 10 Greater Strengths ?...

The build in my head was a Bestial Half orc (24str- to start pc+beastial bonus), Brd5 (for 8 lore and access to..), RDD 10 (no more str increases past rdd10), and ftr the rest for extra feats (totaling 7 GS by lv 40, and 10 str ability increases).. with a +3/+5 book of str, and semiclass War Hulk (+4).. .. total is 56 /58 ... ...

please tell me how you're in the 70-80's ?
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by MannyJabrielle on Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:00 pm

Hehe, +5 books, the things of myth.

If i find one, I dont think I'd be using it... it'd be like the ultimate treasure collectible.
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by Svair on Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:00 pm

MannyJabrielle wrote:20 half orc
+4 beastial subrace bonus
+4 warhulk permanent bonus
+10 level up attribute raises (+1 every 4 levels, 5 pre epic, 5 post epic)
+7 great strengths (can only take 7 as no class has great strength as a bonus selectable feat)
+3 strength tome.
+8 RDD bonus
--------
56. Rusty nailed it.


Yeah, I believe so as this is what I've worked it out to be as well. Heh, that monster could have a base +85 To Hit w/ gear.
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by Anthroplayer on Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:01 pm

Um, I realize I may have been behaving a bit rude lately with contests... so I'd like to apologizing before I log in game.
Ugh, when Crideas gets on here, if he wants, he can go and calculate the numbers I put on with me. Truthfully I came with this calculation by using the following method.

For getting the normal 70, I would start out an orc and put all points in STR, giving me 20 points. I would have some stat points left over, very few, my excess. They would go into CON and CHR. I would put all 5 level points in STR though. I would be using Barbarian and Sorcerer as my base classes, and alternating between the two every level or so in order to gain maximum feats possible, with the adding in of dragon disciple once reaching the proper requirements and alternating in addition to that with the others, focusing alot less of sorcerer from them on, with RDD as main levelups and Barb as secondary. When I reach the end, in addition to having 70 STR, I should also have above 13 DEX CON and CHR, not even enough to get a INT or WIS modifier, and alot of feats to bolster me, primarily in saving throws, attack rolls, and hefty rage bonuses and damage reduction.

Warning, a character like this is extremely easy pickings for the following: anyone and anything who can cast a spell, 5th and 6th tier traps (Aenea doesn't seem to let you craft or buy 6th tier ones from what I've seen), anything that harms if you fail a will save in anyform, if CON is ever reduced the result would be fatal for the rest of combat or next battle unless it is restored very soon, oh, did I mention that this guy is relying on the fact he would do big damage and hit hard, and nothing else whatsoever even with everything I said before? Not to mention I have to remember this guy could not go in the beholder tunnels alone and survive, yikes! How do you get to level 40 with this guy? Patience, lots of it.

If Aenea, I would have to choose Bestial half-orc. This would dumb me down abit... Next, would adding Warhulk early help one out in this build, yes. The second I reach level 10, I would add warhulk and only focus on that till I get all warhulk levels done, then do everything in my power, no matter how humiliating, to get a book of STR +5.

Btw, this character would beat anyone who would A: be a melee character who relies outside of being a tank, or B: a monster with AC lower than 40 and has HP lower than 200, this is with him on max level as if it could be done...
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by Anthroplayer on Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:06 pm

MannyJabrielle wrote:Hehe, +5 books, the things of myth.

If i find one, I dont think I'd be using it... it'd be like the ultimate treasure collectible.

I think there are books that big, but if there arent the max Aenea STR would be 81, and if no +4, 80.
There is a definite that we have +3 stat books, right?
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by Anthroplayer on Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:14 pm

Hmm, seems no-one realized that there are a total of 10 strength boosts you can get as feats. I mean in 20 levels of epicness, and the proper switching in out of feats, I am still able to get all 10 INT and the like feats on my wizardly characters, so I'm sure a character that focuses only on adding STR points would do the same thing.

Btw, almost every class has a specific stat boost as a selectable bonus feat once they get to epic levels. I am counting the epic levels of RDD, and the last of the barbarian. The sorcerer levels in the build would never reach high if I would want to get all 10 STR feats. The sorc levels would never exceed 10 honestly.
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by MannyJabrielle on Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:26 pm

Yes, there are 10 great strength feats in the game engine, but as mentioned, no class has great strength as an epic bonus feat, same with great constitution, limiting a character to only 7 of either of those feats.
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by Ra Cha Chongo on Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:47 pm

I know this is a bit off-topic, but since I didn't get on in time for any of the mathematical fun...

Anthroplayer wrote:Btw, this character would beat anyone who would A: be a melee character who relies outside of being a tank, or B: a monster with AC lower than 40 and has HP lower than 200, this is with him on max level as if it could be done...

Make your character; Jinx is a non-tank melee type (with no custom items, no less) and I'll betcha 20 gp she mops the the floor with ya Razz

ve *glove smack, baby!*
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by RustyDios on Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:00 pm

Antrhoplayer, I'm sorry if I sound abusing or condesending but I still don't see the math for where your 70 is coming from ?.... ...

No matter how I look into it the highest I can get is 56 - 58 (dependent on Str Tomes)... ...

..... now with gear, iouns, spells/potions I can get 70+ easily.. ((+5str weapon/shield/helm/boots/cloak- from custom items possibly, +4gloves - yes I saw them once in Aenea, didn't have enough cash for purchase have never seen em since, though it was late night I may have been largely hallucinating, +8belt, +5 bulls str, +2 ioun... ... but Dave said only PERMANENT boosts, and that lot is all temporary enhancements....

Dependant on how RDD's work with re-lev/reincar/ascend that number could be alot higher... it's known that bug's exist with RDD and re-lev items in other PW's, but The Amethyst Dragon has a fix for the tome's here, that I'm sure he's likely applied to RDD as well.... if not then you could get 10 RDD (for +8 ) re-lev twice (scales given at 2lv and 21lv) and get another effective 20 lev's of RDD( for +16), then reincarnate, and get "another 30levs of RDD" (+24) +( +4 for WH?) + (+3-5 tome)... then ascend and get another round for (+31 /+33)... .. that would top you out at 56/58 + 31/33.. so that would be 87/89 base str.. with those tricks ((if they work))...

.. but still where mathmatically does your 70 come from ?... do you have a lev by lev plan for getting 70 str ??.. I just can't see it ....
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by MannyJabrielle on Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:43 pm

The RDD bonuses do not appear to persist with relevelling.
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by RustyDios on Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:55 pm

I knew The Amethyst Dragon would have that one covered...

....it's a common problem with re-lev abilities and PW's....
....the Str score get's "corrupted" and the score before the RDD levels gets "lost" .. basically the +8 doesn't get removed with the RDD levels... yet the draconic abilities feat gets removed and "reset" ... the PC can take the levels over and over again.... gaining +8 Str each and every time...
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by Anthroplayer on Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:22 pm

I'm not including items or releveling.
If you've been to a multitiude of PvP themed worlds you can find legit builds that can do those stats without items or releveling.
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by RustyDios on Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:57 pm

OK... you win Anthroplayer.. however the question was....

What is the absolute highest permanent Strength score possible in Aenea without using enhancement bonuses?

I highlighted the bit you may have overlooked.... the question specifically stated in Aenea..


Which makes sense really as this is the AENEA forums and not the "Generic Useless NWN, DnD and Multitude of other PvP PW Forums" of which none of that information whatsoever applies to this particular PW..


Last edited by RustyDios on Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:02 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Attempted to tone down my response, I apolygise if it still sounds abusive, that is not my intention)
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by daveyeisley on Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:05 pm

Rusty is our winner! Grats to you, sir!

58 is the magic number. The HIGHEST POSSIBLE permanent strength score in Aenea. With +12 enhancement you get 70 and that is our ceiling.

The Breakdown is as follows:

Base Strength: 18
Choose Orc Race: +2
Choose Bestial Subrace: +4
Tome of Strength: +5 (the highest possible, whether or not anyone has ever seen one)
Warhulk level 5: +4
10 levelup stat boosts for 40 levels: +10
Red Dragon Disciple level 10: +8 (relevelling and keeping this bonus would be a bug and an exploit making the build invalid)
Great Strength 7: +7 (the most any character can get because no class is allowed to take this as a bonus feat, and there are only 7 base epic feats available)

18 + 2 + 4 + 5 + 4 + 10 + 8 + 7 = 58.

Well done, Rusty!
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by daveyeisley on Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:14 pm

Svair wrote:
MannyJabrielle wrote:20 half orc
+4 beastial subrace bonus
+4 warhulk permanent bonus
+10 level up attribute raises (+1 every 4 levels, 5 pre epic, 5 post epic)
+7 great strengths (can only take 7 as no class has great strength as a bonus selectable feat)
+3 strength tome.
+8 RDD bonus
--------
56. Rusty nailed it.


Yeah, I believe so as this is what I've worked it out to be as well. Heh, that monster could have a base +85 To Hit w/ gear.

I am coming up with only +84 to hit by the way.... the +1 to hit ioun doesnt stack with the +10 to hit from warhulk, that may be where you are off. Otherwise, I am interested where that last +1 is from, hehe.... I get this:

30 base attack
30 Strength Bonus (70 str)
10 Warhulk Bonus
10 Blazing Staff/Impaler Spear Enhancement Bonus at level 40
1 Weapon Focus
2 Epic Weapon Focus
1 Epic Prowess
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by Svair on Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:16 pm

Wouldn't that be +35 for a 70 Str?
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by daveyeisley on Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:19 pm

Svair wrote:Wouldn't that be +35 for a 70 Str?

No sir. The formula for calculating a stat modifier is:

(X - 10) / 2 [rounded down]

Where X is the total Stat.

Because the modifier for a stat of 10 is zero, it offsets the calculation.

(70 - 10) / 2 = 30
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by MannyJabrielle on Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:09 pm

Although only against selected favored enemies, an epic ranger who grabbed bane of enemies on a bonus feat could get +86.
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by daveyeisley on Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:19 pm

Does anybody know for sure if bane of enemies will stack with warhulk?
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by Svair on Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:33 pm

Interesting. In PnP at 20 and every 10 points after that is an additional +5. Looks like I'll have to look into that.
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by Svair on Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:37 pm

Doh! I took Calculus this quarter, but I can't even count on my fingers correctly.

(Four fingers + two thumbs) x 5 = 30, not 35. Embarassed


Last edited by Svair on Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:11 pm; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : Contains too much Alcohol, should call it quits.)
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by RustyDios on Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:21 am


Does anybody know for sure if bane of enemies will stack with warhulk?

If I could drop a semi-class with Jay and pick warhulk, I'd be able to let you know... maybe I'll go that route when he re-incarnates...


Rusty is our winner! Grats to you, sir!....
.... 500,000 gold to the winner.

can this go to ANY PC?... if so I'll have it for my Beastial Half Orc Brd/Ftr/Rdd who will be a dev criting warhulk with a spear,, with a 56-58 base str ... Smile Smile

NOTE -- He's not actually created yet.... Smile....
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by daveyeisley on Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:11 pm

Sure.
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by RustyDios on Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:47 pm

I would like to report that although it has been AGES since this thread was last commented on, the PC has been created, and finally today picked up his cash prize of 500k...

Thankye Dave Yeisley, this sets him on the path to that magical 58 base str...
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by eeriegeek on Mon May 17, 2010 5:09 pm

I new this thread was back here somewhere! For what its worth... I think this answer has changed to 78. Smile
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by Kefrem on Mon May 17, 2010 5:35 pm

As for the tomes +5...i only vaguely remember in a conversation with ad that he only gave them out thru dm run events. I think i remember mentioning he never put them in the loot tables.

mind you...i could just be babbling right now...but i do somehow remember him saying it.
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by MannyJabrielle on Mon May 17, 2010 6:20 pm

And oddly, such a build would only be the 3rd highest AB possible build.
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by Eric of Atrophy on Mon May 17, 2010 6:34 pm

Kef is right ... the 4s and 5s are only DM gives, to my knowledge.

As far as the thread topic, I don't usually ever have any sort of functionally topical input, because it's far above my head, but I love to read the discussions and arguments that come up when examining points of the game from a mechanical standpoint!

So, kitten, tell us how you feel this number has changed - inquiring minds and all that...
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

Post by MannyJabrielle on Mon May 17, 2010 6:55 pm

lv40+ stat buys from a certain dragonkin merchant. Lv40 characters can buy stat boosts at 500k xp per +1, up to +20 for a single stat.
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Re: Hulk SMASH!!!

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