Poll: Change to Quarterstaff?

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Turn quarterstaff from a single attack weapon into a double weapon?

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Total Votes : 10

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Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:19 pm

I'm considering turning the quarterstaff into a double weapon (like the two-bladed sword and double axe). However, they way NWN works, you'd only be able to wield it as a double weapon if this change is made (aka, penalties to attacks in exchange for an "off hand" attack per round)...weapons in NWN can't be both single and double weapons (like in P&P D&D). It would remain a "simple weapon", it would just be used more like the double-ended weapon it appears to be.

So, what's your opinion? This will be a 7-day poll (increased from a 3-day one).

Yes, make the change
No, don't make the change
Whatever. Smitty for President!


Last edited by The Amethyst Dragon on Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:04 am; edited 2 times in total

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Post by KangTheMad on Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:38 pm

100% at an overwhelming two votes for Yes, half of those mine. Its a landslide!
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Post by Ra Cha Chongo on Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:05 pm

Leaning towards yes, but a couple questions before I lock it in;

Would combat feats still be applicable to quarterstaves if the change is made?
Also, would there be any possibility of "magic staves" being made available as normal fighting weapons (i.e., acidic, frost, etc.)?
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Post by DerusTal on Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:16 pm

I like them as two-handers, honestly. Neat idea, though.
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Post by Elhanan on Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:45 pm

While I believe they should be dual weapons in the first place, this is not how they were implemented these past years of gaming. I worry a bit that mages may lose a lot if they are now burdened with a weapon that requires A/TWF/ITWF to be useful.

Holding off vote for a bit....
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Post by MannyJabrielle on Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:58 pm

Mages would stillbe able to use "magic staves" as normal, since they're not the same base item as q-staves.

Also, perhaps extend the pole for more than 3 days? There are some players who don't visit the forums daily who might miss the pole Smile A week perhaps?
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:37 pm

MannyJabrielle wrote:Also, perhaps extend the pole for more than 3 days? There are some players who don't visit the forums daily who might miss the pole Smile A week perhaps?
Can do. Smile

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Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:40 pm

Ra Cha Chongo wrote:Would combat feats still be applicable to quarterstaves if the change is made?
Also, would there be any possibility of "magic staves" being made available as normal fighting weapons (i.e., acidic, frost, etc.)?
Yes, combat feats for quarterstaff would still work (Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Ambidexterity, Two-Weapon Fighting, etc.).

Magic staves are an entirely different sort of item. Not weapons, they are really a spell trigger devices that just happens to be large enough to hit people over the head with (without breaking it) if they get too close.

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Post by RustyDios on Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:50 pm

I've always viewed 1/4staves as two handed weapons, and as long as the feats (weapon focus, spec etc) don't need changing I'm all go... also two of my five PC's are good dual weilders anyway (my ranger Jay, and my monk Valoriana), and my Bard (T'setnoc) will likely follow more of a melee build (with A/2WF/I2WF) anyway, one PC is just two small to effectively use 2H's (my teenage girly cleric Grace - she likes her "mace"!).... and my remaining PC likes her sword and shield style too much..... .... so my vote is slighty bias, as it has no real negative effects on the PC's I have that would use a 1/4staff anyway.... Just for looks and that I've always thought they were 2H's.... I'm voting Yes.... Smile
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Post by Svair on Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:09 pm

Could their size be changed to "Small" if they become 2-Handed Double weapons?

In PnP, I believe that the first striking end would be considered to be a Medium size weapon, while the second end would be considered a Small weapon (for the purposes of the 2-Weapon attack penalties).

I'm not sure the above is doable in NWN though, and would prefer the whole weapon to be considered Small.
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:38 pm

It's always been a large weapon (for purposes of how many hands it takes to wield and which races can wield it), as with other double weapons.

As a double weapon, you'd get the same use as any other double weapon:
the primary end (the one that hits first) is considered a medium weapon and the secondary end (the one that hits on the "off-hand" attack) is considered small. So you get all the same attack bonuses as dual-wielding a longsword & shortsword (although it's more like dual-wielding clubs Razz).

The only drawback I see is for those characters that rely on the quarterstaff as a 2-handed simple weapon (some wizards or those using it more as a walking stick) and don't want it as a 2-ended weapon.

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Post by MannyJabrielle on Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:59 pm

Nothing a cloak of armed mastery won't be able to fix Smile
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Post by Ra Cha Chongo on Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:15 pm

The Amethyst Dragon wrote:The only drawback I see is for those characters that rely on the quarterstaff as a 2-handed simple weapon (some wizards or those using it more as a walking stick) and don't want it as a 2-ended weapon.

That's more what I was asking about when I brought up magic staves (though it occurs to me now that a magic staff is functionally identical to a club anyway, at least in terms of weaponry). Maybe the next custom weapon could be a simple 2-handed greatclub to cover the gap?

At any rate, I vote yes Very Happy
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Post by Eric of Atrophy on Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:38 pm

Make the change! Make the change! Make the change!
As usual, I have nothing mechanically constructive to contribute... Razz
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Post by daveyeisley on Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:28 pm

So basically, if you dont have TWF/Ambi you are now taking -4/-8 to hit With a quarterstaff? For those classes relegated to simple weapons, their AB is already low... it wouldnt survive such penalties...

Then then change is only useful for dual wielders.... for whom there are far better weapons to dual wield.... and the PCs who can affords the above feats are almost always going to have access to martial weapons.

Im not in favor of the change unless something can be done about the penalties for non-dual wielders. Perhaps all quarterstaves granting TWF or Ambi as bonus feats.
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Post by DerusTal on Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:06 pm

I've got the same concerns as Crid. Is there a way that dual weilding feats turns it into a two-hander, and without it it's normal?
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:28 pm

daveyeisley wrote:Perhaps all quarterstaves granting TWF or Ambi as bonus feats.
Me like. Smile I should be able to have the module add Two-Weapon Fighting as a temporary (so it will be automatic and not affect staff prices) property on-equip, just like I do with shuriken getting the Mighty property.

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Post by Anthroplayer on Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:21 am

Hmm, This seems pointless unless you have both short staves and quater/long staves. Otherwise all your doing is making a weapon that is already big enough bigger and making more difficulties when applying it to combat.

I'll say this in addition to the post above me. Two-weapon Fighting and Knockdown are automatically gained feats for all characters on level1 normally in 3.5 edition D&D. If Aenea were to grant these skills to the players, the quarterstaff would become a powerful weapon for wizards. This could even persuade wizards, as well as other non-martial weapon users, to carry a quarterstaff in addition to their other stuff.

My vote remains undecided until The Amethyst Dragon states whether or not he decides to apply more 3.5 edition D&D rules to Aenea.
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:35 am

Anthroplayer wrote:Hmm, This seems pointless unless you have both short staves and quater/long staves. Otherwise all your doing is making a weapon that is already big enough bigger and making more difficulties when applying it to combat.

I'll say this in addition to the post above me. Two-weapon Fighting and Knockdown are automatically gained feats for all characters on level1 normally in 3.5 edition D&D. If Aenea were to grant these skills to the players, the quarterstaff would become a powerful weapon for wizards. This could even persuade wizards, as well as other non-martial weapon users, to carry a quarterstaff in addition to their other stuff.

My vote remains undecided until The Amethyst Dragon states whether or not he decides to apply more 3.5 edition D&D rules to Aenea.
I don't really know any 3.5 rules. Razz I'm a 3e kind of guy myself (never really bothered buying/downloading the changes after buying the 3e stuff). The proposed changes to quarterstaves is just to make them into double weapons (otherwise, why carry one when you could be using a basic club and freeing up a hand for something like a shield or torch?). The idea to add the TWF feat to the staff is just to make it more useful as a "simple" weapon (rather than having it completely usless to those with no TWF abilities. Isn't a short staff a club? And this doesn't change the size of the quarterstaff, just changes it to a double weapon.

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