Party-Considerations.

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Party-Considerations.

Post by MannyJabrielle on Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:01 pm

With Aenea seeing more players online on average, and said players grouping up together, particularly when a DM sets up some sort of trouble, perhaps it's best if we solidifying some etiquette for party-play. Not rules (no, we don't need a rulebook), just a general consensus on how to keep group situations running smoothly, and enjoyable. More 'good habits' than 'rules.

What's your take on a party situation, what do you like about it, what do you think we could all do to make it more enjoyable?
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by Alundaio on Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:10 pm

My only frustration is that most people start RPing in a DM event and then you have people talking ooc not using the //'s asking weird questions. For the most part though people seem to get along well. I try myself to help any fallen allies or do what I can to help with my characters abilities. I also think even if the monsters are more powerful, some of the lowbies should atleast try to attack the enemy or help other instead of just standing there soaking xp. Don't be afraid to die, most likely someone has Ressurection and you'll get most of your xp back. As long as you can tell us where you died we'll be happy to come find and ressurect you. Another thing is the loot situation. I've been in alot of Events from the time I've been here and only the 2 times has it gone bad. Loot needs to be discussed before you just litterally take everything and not say a word.
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by Alundaio on Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:18 pm

I know these people weren't trying to be selfish, it's just that it makes it alot harder to tell people what you have taken. It reminds me a time when Derfel did that and he had to state multiple times what he has and who wants what until he finally just laid everything out for people to see and bid for the items in question. The whole reason DMs use a chest is because it's alot faster and smoother. Also don't be afraid to speak up if you really want something. I've seen people pass up somthing they really needed because they didn't try to persuade why they need it more. I'm not saying argue either. But I know some people get a rare chance to be in an Event and should get the reward they want. AOE spells should be kept to a minimun too. Maybe on a group of 10 or 15 at most. Fireballing 30 zombies will crash ol' faithful.
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by Grey_Stooge on Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:40 pm

I agree with this. If there is a reason you need something from the chest. (Tomes, Equipment, it should be said by the Dm what is in there. That way everyone knows. Certain tomes and items work with certain builds, so somethings are actually put into the chest for a given character. When it is a free for all, all the "good" stuff or the stuff that is needed is taken, and that player is screwed. Tome wise, I say the Dm should tell what is in the chest, then hand them out to who needs them the most.

Last night, Aarn said he would just take the scraps because he needed the money. I was willing to give him the gold, but with all the speech going on I don't think he saw it. Also, if he needed something specific it wasn't there.

A DM sticks what they want in the chest. What would benefit the characters of the team the most. When these things are taken or not considered to whom they would work the best it is hard to want to try and be apart of another DM ran event. So a little consideration would be nice. Also claiming an item before we get to see them, should be done only when a DM tells the group what is in the chest, then decisions can be made.

Just a thought.
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by Maeglin Dubh on Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:38 pm

As Beuttleria is now seven players strong, I understand we can have a big effect on the mood of an event. We really enjoy the fun we have with events, but we don't want to ruin anyone else's fun in the process. Our IC may seem to border on the flippant side, and if that bothers someone, please send a tell to Derik, Derfel, or Kasigi, whoever happens to be commanding at the time.

Commands given by either of us are not to be taken as orders, but simply a roleplaying of our role as tactical officers. If you prefer to be left to your own devices, a simple notification will suffice and we'll leave you out of the chain of command. The idea behind Beuttleria is an organization of soldiers, so in the large battles we're treating combatants like soldiers. Being given orders by a Beuttlerian officer isn't a sign of a lack of respect, it's an acknowledgement of your significance in the succesful outcome of the battle, but we obviously understand if someone isn't up for going along.

As for participation, I don't have a problem with someone coming along if they're not able to solo the monsters involved. If they have to hang back and support, to avoid being murdered, that's fine, so long as they're actually supporting. Ressing, healing, buffing, arching, whatever they can capably do. If you aren't capable of contributing in any way, then I personally would prefer people not come along just to bask in free XP. Do it if you like, but don't expect preferential treatment or prioritorization of healing resources. If a level 3 comes along on an Epic-level war, and they die, they should really not be surprised.

On a related note, if you really must bask in XP, don't sit there at level 3 for the whole time to maximize your gain. Take the levels as they come so you can start contributing faster.
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by daveyeisley on Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:44 pm

For me, I plan to no longer use chests.... not becuase I dont trust players to be responsible about distributing loot, either.

Me setting up a chest has a few drawbacks.... like for instance:

1. I dont know who will be involved in the event at the end, so I may not put enough into the chest for everyone, or the stuff I put in may be very valuable but not of particular use to the PCs who participate.

2. If the server crashes during the event, all my setup is lost.... loot chest included.

3. Giving out rewards manually, while more work for me, can be done thru an RP device like an NPC.

If I forego the loot chests, it will take a bit longer and take a bit more effort from me... but this way I can be more sure that each player gets a suitably personalized reward for coming along.
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by MannyJabrielle on Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:56 pm

For non-DM run events/encounters, I tend to find having a system for remain looting/saccing helps keep the flow of the game going/eases frustrations. It's always nice to check with people you're hunting with before saccing, or ask what they're interrested in looting.

Nothing is as aggravating as opening a remains bag, seeing the item you've been looking for, and some sac-happy hunting partner suddenly zapping the remains on you...

And on the other hand, nothing is as quite as nice as when everyone knows what everyone else is looking for, and will grab that item out of remains they open on behalf of their hunting companion.
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by Elhanan on Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:57 am

The only thing Aarn could do during the first hour of that huge battle was to shoot mundane arrows from a bow, and RP. It was not until the DM dropped the quiver and gems needed to help the Dwarf's attacks that he had any real opp to really be of help. And then the quiver was set to a ILR higher than his lowbie start, so more delay.

I was encouraged by another Player to Lvl Up during the combat so that I could help more effectively. I agree that this is also distracting from RP, but I did not see I had much choice as Aarn was only 7th lvl or so at the start. And it appears that the XP auto-scales regardless if you have Lvl Up or not, as Aarn actually gained XP early on before it began to dwindle down again.

Folks are just going to have to be more patient with lowbies, and realize that such actions reflect the chaotic fog of war.

One thing I suggest to help is that more combat medical supplies be placed into the game (eg; Heal kits that may be used during melee). While lowbies are sometimes not effective in battle, they can be helpful treating the injured. While it would be best if all these folks could be off the lines, the game Engine does not seem to make it possible. So in such cases, making kits more effective within the entire area seems to be more Party friendly than forcing injured and medical PC's to withdraw to a seperate area.

Now this next suggestion will not be popular, but I suggest that XP be restricted during the events, and allow the DM's to note all involved and reward them at the conclusion of the event.

Pls do not misunderstand: I luv me some XP! But as a PnP DM, seeing folks go from 7th to 40th in one major event was rather shocking. And by controlling the XP, creating an entire shop for XP will not be needed; just maybe a crafting skill for anyone to expend XP on specific items as they wish.
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by Alundaio on Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:42 am

The xp problem only exists on the new epic level monsters. It just needs tweaked down some. Alot of the problems addressed by the others and I aren't really person specific. Derfel is talking about the people who say "I'm just going to stand back and let you guys handle it because I'm low level" Type people. Which are the same people who end up getting tons of xp and rewards for not doing one thing that contributed to the group. You are a perfect example though of what a lowbie should do. Attack from a safe distance and do your best to contribute, either through gameplay or roleplay. Albeit your a low level character.


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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by daveyeisley on Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:56 am

There are already items in game that can be used to heal others during combat. They are class restricted for good reason, however. UMD can make this viable support option, as well.

It actually makes more sense to me for wounded characters and healers to back off from the main battle lines to handle medical procedures, too. Clerics role as in combat, front line healers would be protected in this way.

As for XP, I dont think there should be a blockage on Xp during DM events... but the zombies do give way too much. That will be fixed, eventually. If the XP gained is reasonable, its no big deal to have a PC levelup during the event... and gaining a level can make it even more fun.
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by Elhanan on Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:45 am

While there are certain items that allow cures during combat (eg; wands, staves), they are restricted in both class and cost. Again, this eliminates the lowbies from doing much of anything constructive.

And while the injured could fall back to the ranks of the healers, having to leave an entire area to do so removes those players from the fun of the event. Then reward XP will even be more vital as these players cannot get Party XP from the battle, and are pushed to RP being injured, crippled, etc which is not all that fulfilling, IMO.

For XP, I was thinking of placing a soft cap on gains of something like 50k (or between 40-80k). This grants enough XP for both lowbies and the Epics.
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by daveyeisley on Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:12 am

While there are certain items that allow cures during combat (eg; wands, staves), they are restricted in both class and cost. Again, this eliminates the lowbies from doing much of anything constructive.

Sure, but they are magical items. Lowbies being able to stand near the front lines bandaging wounds with normal healing kits doesnt quite work from a number of perspectives. They will still be killed by enemies, and there is too much chaos to properly use such a low priced, mundane healing procedure as it requires more time and focus than magical healing. If the higher level PCs need healing that badly, they should willingly front the money for the lowbies to buy those magical items... but if the lowbie cant use the item, then healing would not be an effective role for them. Chaning things so that any lowbie can be an effective healer in a high level combat will create more problems than it solves....

Lowbies arent going to be able to do much constructive from a healing standpoint anyways, even if you allow mundane, cheap healing kits to work in combat.... unless you also make them usable at range... which would really kill immersion.

If a Dm runs a high level event, and lowbies want to participate, the only real way to make it viable is for the DM to then make part of the event geared towards them. The same thing applies in reverse, running a lower level event and high level PCs wanting to become involved means restricting what they high level PCs can do or scaling up the encounter challenge. As a DM, I can say this is probably the most frustrating part of running events.... because trying to please everyone makes it far less fun for me.


And while the injured could fall back to the ranks of the healers, having to leave an entire area to do so removes those players from the fun of the event. Then reward XP will even be more vital as these players cannot get Party XP from the battle, and are pushed to RP being injured, crippled, etc which is not all that fulfilling, IMO.

The wounded and healers can have a space in the same area behind the main front liners, doesnt have to be a different area at all.... just far enough away from the fighting that there is no danger of AoE's and such from hitting them. They would still be close enough to gain shared party XP, and once healed can easily rejoin the fight. As for RP, there is no enforced RP at all on Aenea... if a PC is woudned and falls back for healing, they dont have to RP it at all. They can if they wish to, if they would enjoy doing it, but its not required, or even expected.


For XP, I was thinking of placing a soft cap on gains of something like 50k (or between 40-80k). This grants enough XP for both lowbies and the Epics.

It would really depend on what the enemies are, as far as what is reasonable.... having a cap would be more trouble than its worth. Lower level PCs already have a cap on how much XP they can gain from their own and party kills.... but if the party kills enough enemies to level one of its members, I dont see a need to cap the gains to remove that possibility. The only concern is the gains being ridiculously high per kill, which the zombies are the only enemy that current has this issue.... even so, the caps on XP for lowbie stops them from gaining a ton of XP per kill *until* they get higher level and the cap goes up.
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by Lauralai on Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:40 am

Everyone here is at a different level, just like in real life
Everyone wants to help protect home and hearth
no one dies on purpose
and all of us, according to our ability, have done their very best.
is that no longer enough?
I don't hit as hard as others do, but i buy and use alot of spells
I die more than some, but i resurrect as many as I can
i spend most of my time just trying to make a dent in the bad guys, and staying alive
I wonder if people are all just doing the best they can.
Im just trying to feel good about an invitation i got to join a battle
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by daveyeisley on Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:52 am

I dont think its so much an issue of folks not *trying* their best.... from what I have seen just about every single lowbie has worked very hard to contribute when involved in high level combats.

I think the issue that we are getting at here is a lack of good options.

Healing wise, I discussed some of the issues above... I dont think its feasible to make lowbies effective healers for high level combat, at least not without creating other problems... like lowbies then gaining those same healing abilitiy when *not* in a high level combat, which could nerf certain challenges severely.

Lowbies do very well raising the dead, provided they can afford the scrolls, or the corpse has them on it... but only so long as the combat isnt happening right on top of the corpse.

Still, that in itself doesnt make for a satisfying experience. Offensively, lowbies are basically screwed in high level combat. The baddies are going to be powerful enough to negate most anything a lowbie can do attack-wise.

Buffs for the high level PCs would be an attractive option to me.... since what lowbies will have access to based on their builds wont be of much use.... perhaps we could have some *items* like the flags and banners that will give certain buffs in a wide area... it will require the PC using said item to not be able to attack, but can make the other PCs better in certain ways.... attack bonuses, movements speed (the long march banner comes to mind), resistances to various damage types, even area denial (something like the barrier of faith book) to protect other party members.

The trick there would be to avoid giving the lowbies items that will negate the benefit of other PCs class abilities.


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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by Elhanan on Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:53 am

As far as healing in combat, simply lifting the current restrictions and using NWN kits would seem to solve one problem. Currently, all fighting must cease for the current kits to be utilized, so simply being in the same area does appear to prohibit their usage. I understand that some PC's are forgoing placing any ranks in Heal currently as it must be done when all is well and calm, and then there are better options than the kits.

It would seem to be easier to return to the default system, and allow anyone to be of partial use during battle. While a lowbie might not be an effective healer, something is better than nothing. Currently, all the lowbies seemingly can do is fight and hope for a Crit hit and bypass DR. Being a combat medic may or may not be as dangerous, but at least then something positive is accomplished for the risk.

Note: Aarn only had 43 Undead kills from that massive event, and all of those were in the final hour or so after gaining magic arrows and Lvl Up. Before that time, it was just RP and suggested tactics.

As for XP, I am saying that an award at the end of the event (or a bit more or less depending on the RP, length of time, etc) be given to the PC as individuals. This could be done as item awards are done, too. The 50k award was suggested as it grants the Epics a full lvl, and offers the lowbies a lot of them, but not all.

Another possible thing that could be done for lowbies in events is to continue to place more than one DM, so that the not just the action is monitored, but also the RP. I was pleased that some noticed my attempts to do something before I could actually hit anything.

Glad someone mentioned low lvl events too. I recently excused Barnabas from one such event, as I was unaware that it was for lowbies until a PM was sent to tone it down. To me, Flayers have always been deadly; not fodder for the youth. My bad....

For this end, I suggest the server be informed of the intended kind of events. If I had known the intended purpose going into it, rather than memorize the mega-offensive spells, I could have provided buffs and misc magics as needed.
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by Maeglin Dubh on Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:22 am

Whenever an event is announced, I always ask the DM if it's a Derfel-level challenge or a Kasigi-level challenge (Kasigi being 40 now, it's moved on to Frostblood as the secondary).

I was the one (as Kasigi) who recommended you take the levels, since we were an hour into the combat and I noticed you hadn't leveled at all, and you were still missing near every shot I saw you take. If you did hit, I didn't see damage being done. So I figured if you took the levels you could actually join the rest of us in hitting things.

I originally created Kasigi to lead side-combats while epic wars were going on, so that the young ones could have something to do besides die screaming and plead for a res. I've got a few backups for that, but it's really up to the DM's if they want to have a secondary combat zone. Obviously, they can't handle two at once, but they could spawn some extra enemies in a low-level combat zone and leave them for us to tangle with.
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by daveyeisley on Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:34 am

Elhanan wrote:As far as healing in combat, simply lifting the current restrictions and using NWN kits would seem to solve one problem. Currently, all fighting must cease for the current kits to be utilized, so simply being in the same area does appear to prohibit their usage. I understand that some PC's are forgoing placing any ranks in Heal currently as it must be done when all is well and calm, and then there are better options than the kits.

It would seem to be easier to return to the default system, and allow anyone to be of partial use during battle. While a lowbie might not be an effective healer, something is better than nothing. Currently, all the lowbies seemingly can do is fight and hope for a Crit hit and bypass DR. Being a combat medic may or may not be as dangerous, but at least then something positive is accomplished for the risk.

Note: Aarn only had 43 Undead kills from that massive event, and all of those were in the final hour or so after gaining magic arrows and Lvl Up. Before that time, it was just RP and suggested tactics.

As for XP, I am saying that an award at the end of the event (or a bit more or less depending on the RP, length of time, etc) be given to the PC as individuals. This could be done as item awards are done, too. The 50k award was suggested as it grants the Epics a full lvl, and offers the lowbies a lot of them, but not all.

Another possible thing that could be done for lowbies in events is to continue to place more than one DM, so that the not just the action is monitored, but also the RP. I was pleased that some noticed my attempts to do something before I could actually hit anything.

Glad someone mentioned low lvl events too. I recently excused Barnabas from one such event, as I was unaware that it was for lowbies until a PM was sent to tone it down. To me, Flayers have always been deadly; not fodder for the youth. My bad....

For this end, I suggest the server be informed of the intended kind of events. If I had known the intended purpose going into it, rather than memorize the mega-offensive spells, I could have provided buffs and misc magics as needed.

Out of combat, the kits are the most cost effective healing in the game. Even with no points in heal, you average 5 points healed per use, 20 uses, 100 hit points healed for only 220 gold or so. And those numbers get much more attractive with points in heal. I never liked the default bioware "bandage myself in a melee" healing kits.... they dont make sense. If there was a way to determine if a PC is being threatened by an enemy for scripting purposes, sure, change em so that if you are out of melee you can use them.... but if that were possible, The Amethyst Dragon would have done it, I think. The way it is, for me, is superior to the alternative of having people standing right in front of a troll trying to eat them, and bandaging themself.

Also, the high level PCs are *bound* to have their own healing. The only person who can do any better than the Asis full heals would be an Asis cleric popping off mass heals. I just dont see much use or benefit to trying to change things to make lowbies healers in those situations. Call me crazy... but, I don't... and its not that I havent been thinking about it... I have.

The "end of event" XP awards I have done on just about every single event I have ever run. I didnt do it this last time due to the bloated zombie XP. I just dont like or see any need to place any caps or restrictions on the XP gained during battle, as long as its a reasonable gain per kill. Every PC already has a maximum amount of XP they can gain per kill based on their level, as well as a n XP penalty if they are too far off the party average, and the lower level you are, the less XP you gain from anything, and also your MAX xp is lower as well. Thats all that is needed, I think. The end of event XP is just a bonus on top of what was gained during the event. And I usually tailor the awards based on things like RP and party contributions... as well as the level of the recipient. (also, I did see your RP about the ointment and your aching string hand Razz)

Multiple DMs in a single event can and has happened in the past, but ya know.... sometimes we DMs want to participate in the events, too Smile

We dont exactly get anything out of running the events in lieu of playing our PCs, except the hope of giving other players a fun time. Expect that having more than one DM involved will be the exception, and not the rule.

When I run *any* event, low level or otherwise, I *try* to inform folks of what levels it is geared towards. Sometimes I forget, other times players log on after I announce it. If I dont see them come in, I dont get a chance to request that they hold back so the lowbies can have their fun... it happens. I get frustrated at the situation... but if I have an issue with a player, you can bet I will speak to them about it. You didnt hear anything from me about the situation you mention, because you didnt do anything wrong. I never asked you to hold back, and its not your fault that you participated under the assumption you didnt have to. It was the correct assumption, because I hadnt given any indication otherwise. It still knocked the wind out of my sails, tho Razz
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swim buddies

Post by Lauralai on Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:17 am

So, here is an idea.
Remember in school you never left your swim buddy, (or your tour buddy, or your street crossing buddy during a field trip?) behind
Rather than tailoring special events for stratified layers of Aenenas, I think it would be easier to get all the lowbies together pre conflict, and see if they could kinda look out for one another, (yes I know that we do to a great extent but track with me here)
All the big PCs can take these monsters on one on one. They will be just fine,
but if the lower level pcs could agree to gang up on one of the monsters and take him down together, that might make them more effective. Like pack fighters, taking care of one another
I know that this is sort of how it is done now, that everyone rushes toward a group of monsters and starts wailing away, but I was actually told to go and find another mob during that fight, (I have no idea who said it), maybe they were trying to direct me to other lower level characters that need the assist, and they were just fine with what they had to get accomplished.
Create an environment where you know who your tour buddys are, and that if they should start losing hp, then send them a tell to heal, or heal them if you can or resurrect them if required.
It might make each of the lowbies more efficient, and turn them into killing units rather than having to try it solo
I know that during the fight, I was trying new stuff as fast as I could think of it. If anyone should like to direct these energies just let me know! I am willing to take directions, if i know what you are asking for, I am more than happy to have the direction.
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by Maeglin Dubh on Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:51 pm

((And while yes, XP gain was pretty ridiculous the past few events, I have to say it beat grinding Beholders for hours on end.))
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by daveyeisley on Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:02 pm

Maeglin Dubh wrote:((And while yes, XP gain was pretty ridiculous the past few events, I have to say it beat grinding Beholders for hours on end.))

Amen.

And because it bears repeating.

Amen.
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by MannyJabrielle on Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:00 pm

Good teamwork can and does happen. In the Alatha zombie-smash, I saw a dracolich go down pretty damn quick. While there was at least 1 40th PC in the mix (and I think a second), most were around 20th or lower.

As a DM, I would say in a DM event, don't worry too much about if you're "too low level". Get on in and swing away, see what you can do. If you're a level 10 running around with a bunch of level 30's, when I'm on in DM mode, I'll help you out with healing you/rezzing you if you're getting beat up, and will help with XP debt after the fighting is over.

Or, if you're dying every 2 seconds, I'd recommend you hang back, or try to set up stuff lower level for you around the edges of the main combat. Also... if you're in a DM event, and are finding you can't kill anything, or dying or such, it doesn't hurt to sent a tell to the DMs on the DM channel.

It's not too easy keeping track of sometimes as many as 16 different players, along with spawning new baddies, trying to pull the players towards a given area, or just watching to figure out how to challenge the group as a whole... a message from a player helps me in figuring out how to keep everyone challenege and entertained.

All in all, I'd say, don't be afraid to get splatted, and don't be afraid to speak up. Splatting happens, and speaking up can help DMs, or even other players figure out how to help keep the splatting down to a minimum.
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by Maeglin Dubh on Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:05 pm

And in case it hasn't been mentioned yet, DM battles are one of the big things that sets this world apart from all the others we visited over the weekend.

Going to war with an entire server at your back is a rather irreplaceable aspect of the NWN experience.
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by Svair on Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:17 pm

This topic was likely started, in part, as a response to some behavior I exhibited at the end of that session. It is regrettable as the impression I gave, regardless of intent, is justifiable. I am writing to offer my apologies.

At the end of the session a reward chest was laid out, and my PC took quite a few things from it. While never my intent to keep all those items or not share w/ other party members, I certainly did not need to keep those things in my personal inventory.

Simply returning them to the chest after examination (or better yet, not placing them in my inventory to begin with) would have been a better course of action. I realize that allowing other players to examine the chest and contents themselves would have allowed other players make more informed decisions and facilitated negotiations better. It would certainly have avoided any resentment there may be towards me, and the acute embarrassment I know feel.

I made a mistake, and am sincerely sorry. Please accept my apology.

~S'vair
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by MannyJabrielle on Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:45 pm

No, it wasn't because of the snafu in gravelight, or even the reward time situations in general or what any single player did.

I started it more in response to how I've been seeing groups working in general, in all aspects, and not just in DM run events, but even in groups running around in regular hunting areas; how we work together, how we watch out for eachother, ect, not just how the reward chests or monster remains are handled or mishandled.

Please, don't take this as any sort of griping or such. It's more of just trying to get a general consensus on between everyone as players of what habits could be encouraged to help things more enjoyable in every aspect, not just one single aspect, of group play. Mistakes will always be made, and we all know (or should know at least) that no player is out with any sort intention to screw over anyone else over Smile We're all here for fun, not to be wary of eachother or anything.
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by Maeglin Dubh on Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:55 pm

I think this topic is more pre-emptive than punitive.
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by Alundaio on Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:07 pm


  • Yea, this wasn't because of you S'vair. I said myself that this topic isn't for any specific person. I witnessed a few things that Manny and the others have stated, in previous events. All of them somewhat impeding others fun and game experience.  We know you weren't trying to be selfish and take all the items. I tried explaining why it's just easier to leave everything in the chest to let everyone take a look so they can then ask somthing like: "Hey I really want that Dex belt, does anyone mind If I take it?" Then if someone opposes they can. The DM will usually step in if there is a disagreement.  It's how it usually happens but a few times it hasn't gone so smoothly. Because someone jumps the gun and starts taking things before anyone else gets a chance to know what's in the chest.
  • That's why I asked you why you removed the items if you were going to pass them out anyway. It just didn't make sense. I understand you were trying to help. You really do not have to apologize. I even felt bad you didn't try and get a book because I think you ended up feeling bad for what you have done. Like Manny says, this isn't a complaint post. It's so we can all come to agreement on how to make group events more enjoyable and easier for the PCs and the DMs.
  • I guareentee I probably did stuff that unknowingly made other's gameplay unenjoyable.
  • Oh another thing I didn't see mentioned in the post is that there are some People who use unfriendly AOE spells and end up killing party members without even knowing they did so.
  • I remember that Mindflayer event...there was a player that got frustrated and left because there was alot of high levels running around. Even the ones that weren't participating and just watching. I was even upset when I seen all these High levels appear and smash all the mindflayers in seconds. I was really enjoying watching the lowbies try and succeed at the task. I felt bad, because I didn't know they felt that way.
  • Manny did a good job with his last event. It really tailored to all levels quite well. There was high level monsters mixed with really low level monsters which really added that feeling of equality amoung all party members.
  • Dave's events you gotta love. It's the only challenging thing you can ever find in Aenea. It's good he does this because Epic level characters have nothing to do really. Which makes me sad because I get too attached to a character to have to start a new one from scratch.
  • I do believe however making more lowbie only events would be nice. Some player made events would be nice too. I'll gladly pitch in some items for rewards and RP a quest for Lowbies if someone would help. The HOD would really be handy for that.
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by RustyDios on Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:21 pm


Oh another thing I didn't see mentioned in the post is that there are some People who use unfriendly AOE spells and end up killing party members without even knowing they did so.

.. Sorry .. got to mention here that I'm guilty of this behaviour.. even more so when I'm playing as my Ftr/Sor/PM Shouri.. It's not intentional.. I'm just not 100% sure what spells actually effect party members.... I can however RP an excuse if you like...

"Everyone see this big bone arm ?... Yes that's right, I'm studying the dead, more importantly I'm trying to become a lichess myself for the wonderful prospect of immortality.. " ...

.. not to mention a well hidden fact (well untill now).. she IS of a Lawful Neutral (bordering Evil, I think she was evil the last time I played) alignment, so she doesn't really care if you get in the way or not... Smile .... that's NOT to say *I* don't care however, and if I do ever get someone caught in the crossfire of my AoE's I'll try to help you out afterwards...


The only other PC I have this AoE problem with is Grace (for pretty much the same reason *I* as a player am not fully aware of what spells will hurt fellow party members ).. but Grace is a cleric of Mystara.. so the magic goes where Mystara wants it, Grace will 90% of the time be able to heal up any party members caught in her crossfire...

~ I think because of Aenea's hardcore rules... ANY AoE will hit blue-on-blue, so I do try to not get anyone caught in the blasts.. .. it's war and chaos during battles, there isn't much time to figure out what spell to use.. if I want something to damage an enemy, I usually fire it off ..... ...

I find it really hard to play Mage's, (the dizzying array of spells confuses me !!) it's why I tend to stick to melee for DM events, that way I can act as simple tank and draw fire from people that can't take it, and take down as many enemies before falling myself.... ... .... ....

... So far in Aenea (other then maybe once).... I've not run into any problems with grouping up (that I know of)... the key is to remember that manners and politeness cost nothing but a pause and some thought.... ..
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by MannyJabrielle on Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:28 pm

That's a key point too... Certain AoEs are party friendly and some aren't. Not every player knows which is which by the back of their hand. I play loads of mages, even even I am not sure of each and every single spell. If you find you're getting zapped, instead of being nasty towards the mages in your party (which I've seen happen a time or two), asking them to switch to a different spell or watch their targeting is all that's needed. Especially in large groups, it's down right impossible to check the massively scrolling combat log to see if the spell you just cast hit party members.

Either the player is simply unaware that their spells harm party members, or or it's a player new to playing mages who isn't aware of how Area of Effect spells work... not everyone joins up and instantly gains all the knowledge we long-time players have about the quirks of the server Smile
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by Alundaio on Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:50 pm

I've seen on a few occasions that lowbies get blasted away by a hellball. Lol. But AOE spells never bothered me because most of my characters have High Reflex Saves.
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by __Ua__ on Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:03 pm

I'd have to say the only thing with lowbies that bothers me as a castor
is when I see low level getting to close to arcane blackguards when I
am trying to take them out. While the vast majority of my daily spells
are party friendly there do come times when I am out of spells and
resort to using hellball to do the last bit of damage needed to kill
the blackguards. All I ask is that lower level character use their head
in battle and that when they see a big baddy they clear out so that the
epic characters can use their full powers to kill it. Besides...arcane
blackguards hurt even I don't like bing hit by them (unless I have acid
sheath, death armor and epic warding up )
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by MannyJabrielle on Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:32 pm

Hell ball is a spell I think that the caster should give several rounds of warning before casting, if casting at all in a party situation due to it's extremely massive AoE and the knockdown effect.

Yes, BG's do hurt, which is why some of us would rather focus on the buffs we need to face down the BG's rather than having to worry about the buffs we would need to protect ourselves from allies on top of the BGs, particularly when we're the ones at melee with the BG while the hellballer's not.
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by __Ua__ on Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:48 pm

I agree with that ,but just a correction. I'm usually in melee with the BG as well. Anyway my main point in all that was that little people just need to watch where they run to in a crazy battlefield full of things from zombies to Necro's and BG's. I do like the idea of keeping low level grouped together during epic events. Makes for easy healing ,resing and lets go over here everybody...ing.
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by Maeglin Dubh on Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:55 pm

Especially when I've got my healing song up, or healing circle. Like Alystair, but not as dedicated.
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by daveyeisley on Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:53 am

I will post a list of Arcane Area of Effect Spells, and which are friendly, and which aren't. I may forget some, so folks can add to the list afterwards.
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by shnuskis on Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:56 am

This is a great discussion, especially for a newbie like me. I am fairly new to rp'ing, very new to persistant worlds, and have been away from Aenea for quite a few months(mostly working out of state.) I love and appreciate the changes to the world since I was here last.

I have been involved in only one DM led event and it was awesome! It was just a small spur of the moment deal with a few characters and was one of the funnest moments in my lengthy gaming career. One thing I was unfamiliar with was some of the things discussed here in this thread. This is one of the best threads I have read in a while. Great discussion and I hope to be involved in more of these to come. Including tonight!
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by Elhanan on Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:27 am

Suggestion for treasure at end of events....

Much like what is done in the lair of some Black Dragons, or what was done with the stack of barrels in a recent event, this visual functions as a collection of goods for the immersive effect for the characters. From that, the DM's can give each PC rewards as they deem fit; eliminating the need for everyone to announce and wait.

Mass gold can already be split with the widgit, so no change is needed there; just make certain each that indv have already seperated their own purses before event start.
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by MannyJabrielle on Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:52 am

In an invasion done in starfell, with the loot, we tried this method and it seemed to work nicely...

Everyone looks at the treasure, and every says one item they want the most. If there's no conflicts, everyone takes the item they wanted. Then again for a second item, then a third round, until all the treasure's gone.

Now if there's an item that two different players want (which there wasn't at that particular event), then the group can decide on how to settle the matter... dice rolls (helps to have a dicebag in that instance), or perhaps some other method, whatever is most acceptable to the group.
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by Caldor on Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:41 pm

MannyJabrielle wrote:What's your take on a party situation, what do you like about it, what do you think we could all do to make it more enjoyable?

I'm joining this thread belatedly because it struck a chord with me (Db7b5b9, in fact ). This comment is NOT in reference to any of the replies to Manny's initial post--it's a response solely to the initial post.

I think we all have varying levels of "detachment" or separation from our PCs as we adventure. I think I enjoy party situations most (both on quests led by DMs and in simple questing) when the other party members exhibit not only humor, but most importantly good manners in their verbal (chat bar) and nonverbal behavior. For the most part this is a "given" on this server, but I think it's worth mentioning.

FWIW.

Caldor
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Re: Party-Considerations.

Post by daveyeisley on Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:32 am

For any whom are interested in Arcane Spells that are safe to use in Party Play, check out this post.
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Re: Party-Considerations.

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