Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

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Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by daveyeisley on Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:07 pm

updated later in thread


Last edited by daveyeisley on Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:55 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by MannyJabrielle on Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:57 pm

Mage staff base items never get visual effects on them.

Last time I played, I noticed the petrify thing too, thought it was just a random fluke, but it IS annoying to say the least.
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:45 am

daveyeisley wrote:1. Elemental Weapon spells (flame, shock, frost, acid) are not working when targeted directly on the equipped weapon.
Which weapons are these not working on? I just tested them the other night (you were on as DM) and they worked fine targeting the weapons directly in my inventory screen and when targeting my character.

daveyeisley wrote:2. Web and Grease DC are unaffected by the metamagic Staff of Steps. Spells like ray of enfeeblement and color spray, as well as flesh to stone and disintegrate DO seem to benefit on their DCs... so this is probably an issue of certain spells not having been recoded yet, unless web and grease already have been.
You'll notice when casting these spells that they do not give you the white asterisk in the combat log, which means they haven't been recoded yet (so the metamagic staves will have absolutely no effect on them).

daveyeisley wrote:3. New Metamagic Staves do not gain visual effects when affected by elemental weapon spells, elemental crystals, or spectra's aurashift powder.
There is no item visual effects for wizard staves like there are for normal weapon types.

daveyeisley wrote:4. Spectras aurashift powder, via the ;;spectra weapon xxxx command, does not seem to be working.
I'll check on these tomorrow. Thanks.

daveyeisley wrote:5. Scintillating Sphere produces a fireball visual explosion, and my empowered version inflicted only 9 dmg on a failed save against a group of orc soldiers... minimum should have been 15.... and realistically it should have done around 50.
I'll check on this tomorrow. Thanks for reporting.

daveyeisley wrote:6. Firebrand does not seem to benefit from the substitution staves, it still inflicted fire damage. May not have been recoded yet, as other spells like lightning bolt, fireball, and scintillating sphere DID inflict the substitute dmg type.
The firebrand spell hasn't been recoded yet.

daveyeisley wrote:7. Color Spray is causing the caster as well as targets to make a save. Also, when the save is failed by orc soldiers, the effect wears off near instantly....it lasts maybe one second.... should be 1d4+1 rounds for their HD.
Thanks for the report.

daveyeisley wrote:8. Flesh to Stone should be permanent on NPCs, but is wearing off after a few minutes. Extremely frustrating.
Thanks. Probably a bit of code that is being misread and treating PCs and NPCs the same. I'll have to fix that.

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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by daveyeisley on Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:02 pm

I tried the elemental weapon spells on my staff of steps, my transmuter's staff, and my familliar dagger. The spells worked fine if I targeted myself... but did nothing if I targeted my equipped weapon in inventory window.
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:13 pm

daveyeisley wrote:I tried the elemental weapon spells on my staff of steps, my transmuter's staff, and my familliar dagger. The spells worked fine if I targeted myself... but did nothing if I targeted my equipped weapon in inventory window.

That's odd. Those particular items should not be affected by those spells at all. There must be an error in the code when "targeting" is transferred from a creature to it's wielded weapon.

Wizard staves (not just the metamagic ones) are not supposed to be affected by weapon enhancing spells, as they're considered magical focusing items rather than weapons (even though you can hit people over the head with them, you can't take weapon feats with them). Familiar (along with Impaler) isn't supposed to be affected, as it's should carry a variable on it that prevents the already overpowered weapon from picking up an additional 8d6 elemental damage from higher level casters.

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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by daveyeisley on Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:50 pm

Umm..... the elemental weapon spells should work just fine on magical staves. You can hit things with them just fine.... and as magical focusing items they make perfect sense to accept elemental enhancements... and keep in mind things like the onhit dispel property of the staff of the magi as well. They may not have feats in the engine for whatever reason, but they are weapons. In both NWN and PnP. Heck you even made custom magic staves that have elemental damages on them.... red dragonclaw staff, etc...

As for the familliar, impaler, and blazing staff... if these weapons are flagged not to accept additional damage bonuses from spells, well.... that would just kind of suck.... and people who want such will just gather items for in-game upgrades... I can understand in some instances, like the soulfire blade, or the undead reaping zolaras blade as neither is actually a physical object.... but the special dagger, staff, and spear are physical weapons... and an extra average 28 damage ( only for higher level casters, and only on creatures with no resistances mind you) isnt going to make them particularly overpowered... it hasnt been a problem up to this point, either.... expecially considering they can also be crystalled for 5d4 additional damage... or are you planning to take that away as well? (I hope not)
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:40 pm

I won't be changing the staves/growing weapons. Just got to figure out why the spells aren't working the same for targeting the items itself or when targeting the wielder, so that they'll work on all physical weapons both ways.

scintillating sphere - found the problem(s) and corrected for next module update...it all came down to a missing "break;" in the spell script, which was making it use the values for the next spell down (changing the explosion visual, the damage amount, and the damage type from what they should be).

color spray - changing code a little so that cone spells skip the caster as they should.

flesh to stone - fixed code for next module update so that it's properly permanent on NPCs instead of treating NPCs and PCs the same.

I'll be checking on the code for Spectra's powder tonight.

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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by daveyeisley on Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:16 pm

Thank you very much, The Amethyst Dragon.

Were you able to see what was up with the duration of color spray?

It wasnt even lasting a round, literally only a second... and at minimum it should last 2 even on creatures over 5 HD.
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:24 pm

daveyeisley wrote:Thank you very much, .

Were you able to see what was up with the duration of color spray?

It wasnt even lasting a round, literally only a second... and at minimum it should last 2 even on creatures over 5 HD.
Yup, that'll be fixed too with the module update.

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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by daveyeisley on Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:12 am

Flesh to Stone is still wearing off of NPCs.

Cave Goblin Shaman this time.... took about 4-5 mins.
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by daveyeisley on Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:47 am

Just had a nize size group of 6 or so skeleton in the Graveyard. Casted Sunburst. Like the new visual. It only hit one enemy, and the Zolaras Guardian went hostile on me (despite the fact he was not struck by the spell, which of course he shouldnt have because it is party-friendly).

Casted it a bunch of times on other groups of skeletons and the skeletons rolled saves and failed... but took no damage. Looked back in my combat log, and it looks like Crid was also being affected by the spell, as his magical immunities were coming into play, which shouldnt have happened.

Side note: it would be nice to see some kind of XP upgrade and maybe some loot on the Corpse Eater. He is really tough, and hits extremely hard after all.
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by daveyeisley on Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:33 am

Maximized Greater missile storm is still inflicting only 60 damage for 40th level caster.

As the max damage of the spell is 20d4 at 40th level, this should be 80 damage when maximized. That extra 20 points adds up in the dark realm when you end up needing to cast the spell 5+ times per encounter.

It is also possible that the regular version of the spell is not inflicting proper damage.... it seems like the max dmg was set to 15d4.... though I cannot confirm that.... i can say that I have NEVER inflicted more than 60 damage with the spell.
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by daveyeisley on Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:41 pm

Pre-researched Hellball epic spell is not working. Caster announces the spell name, and makes a spellcraft check, but no spell effect occurs on a successful check.

Transport: Portal Alignment (Dark Realm) does not seem to be working either. Cast it on the ground, cast it on self, cast it on a wanderer's portal control panel, cast it on ground inside wanderer's portal... spellcraft check happens, but no discernible effect.

Also, are all the wanderer's portals supposed to display the swirling vortex even when inactive, now?
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by daveyeisley on Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:09 pm

I appreciate the removal of the delay between casting Horrid Wilting and the spell actually doing damage. However, now it seems that such a delay has been added to Telemus Arcanum (at least the 9th level version).

Also Wail of the Banshee features a similar annoying-as-hell delay... I dont see any good reason to have a several second delay between the spell reaching its target and then actually taking effect. Would be an excellent thing to have these spells fixed during the magic overhaul.

edit: hehe, horrid wilting is also destroying doors now.... probably shouldnt be doing that unless the door is alive Razz

edit:2 just noticed that Wail of the Banshee now features a save vs. negative energy rather than the proper save vs. death... is this a bug? was there any reason for the change?
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by daveyeisley on Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:28 pm


Ugh.... Bigby's Crushing hand now no longer inflicts any damage....
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:42 pm

Thanks for the reporting. I'll look at the code for these tonight sometime.

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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by MannyJabrielle on Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:49 pm

Destruction seems to have a bit of a delay now as well between the hit/saving roll, and the actual effect.
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by Elhanan on Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:59 am

Not certain if it is the same in Aenea, but I believe Horrid Wilting actually does magic dmg; not negative energy. This may be the reason it is damaging doors. And as Magic energy is reserved a special place here, perhaps it should remain that way so folks cannot avoid it altogether.
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by daveyeisley on Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:15 am

Naw, the targets affected are set in the spells.2da file, it is not related to damage type. Horrid is doing magical damage, as it should... but it isnt supposed to harm objects or non-living targets. The issue I raised was about wail of the banshee having a save vs. negative energy, when it used to be and should be vs. death.

Silvania's Golden Aura is currently not inflicting any damage whatsoever. The casts as normal, and the VFX is applied.... but when you get hit, nothing happens to the attacker.
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:51 am

Thanks for the reports.

For area of effect spells like horrid wilting, the actual deciding what get's affected is done in the spell scripting. I recently rescripted it, folding it into the script I use for many other area damage spells...looks like I need to add in a check for that specific spell to only affect creatures.

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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by evilkittenofdoom on Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:59 pm

My understanding of Silvania's Golden Aura (unless it's been changed since I last used it, admittedly quite some time ago) is that it is a mobile AoE around the caster (target?) that does damage to undead/PC demonspawn/PC Vampires. Last I recall, it's not a 'damage shield' like Mestil's Acid Sheath is.

Also - Wail of the Banshee has *always* had a delay between the casting and the death effect. The death effect occurs when the 'banshee' 'wails' and not upon the actual finishing of the casting. Weird, as well as Horrid Wilting, have been that was as well, by default. It was just a quirk of the spell to me, not something that was 'broken' and is definitely a rather reasonable drawback for such potent spells IMHO.

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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by MannyJabrielle on Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:24 pm

Golden aura is a damage shield. The Amethyst Dragon tried to get it to damage only undead attackers, but the code just wouldn't differentiate between racial types on the attacker if I recall correctly.
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by daveyeisley on Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:39 pm

Golden aura is not damaging any targets, undead or otherwise. Neither demons, nor Vorshlag(undead).

As for wail, yes, it has always had that delay, and I have always hated it. No need for it. What it results in more often than not, is enemies failing their saves after you complete casting (meaning they should be dead), and then having several seconds to attack you anyways before the script actually kills them.... in tougher fights, such as against beholders, this can get you killed by enemies who already failed the save and should be dead themselves. The spells casting time is not any longer than a standard action, so once the effect reaches a target, it should take effect on that target. In PnP for instance, you dont cast a spell like wail, have the enemies fail their saves, and then give them a round of attacks before they die..... once you declare the casting, and they fail their saves.... thats it, they are dead.
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by daveyeisley on Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:12 pm

edited to remove outdated info updated in later post.


Last edited by daveyeisley on Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:55 pm

sunburst - Damage bug should be fixed for next module update. It will still damage the caster (it's one of them non-targeted AoE blasts like fireball), but the caster and non-hostiles will no longer be blinded.

Corpse Eater - He should give a bit more xp after next update.

Missile storm spells - I'll fix these when I recode them.

horrid wilting - Fixing target check to make sure "living targets" doesn't count anything other than creatures.

wail of the banshee - Leaving delay as is so that timing of the "hit" on targets stays close to timing of the banshee's "wail". Found where death spells were having a save vs. negative energy...the script was auto-setting that type for death spells based on the damage type of the spells if the saves are successful...fixed for next module update.

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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by daveyeisley on Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:26 pm

Umm... Sunburst never affected the caster or their allies, it has always been party friendly.... why would you change that? It is one of the best features of the spell, right up next to the blindness effect, and part of the reason its an 8th level spell... if it hits the caster and party members, then there is basically no reason to use it when one could use horrid wilting, hypothermia, or mass blindness/deafness instead.

And did you find out why the spell was also not blinding enemies who failed the save?

edit: maybe i read your message wrong... but it looks like now you are saying that Sunburst will damage the party... but not blind them? Pardon me for saying so.... but that doesnt make sense... and will simply serve to make the spell overall less attractive than it was... the spell wasnt overpowered or unbalanced..... so I am having a really hard time trying to see a reason behind changing it. edit: at least make that, any reason in the player's interest.... the only thing i see the change doing is making the spell capable of killing the partymates of an unlucky caster... thats not fun... it was fine the way it was. The list of aoe spells that are party friendly is already exceedingly short....
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by daveyeisley on Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:31 pm

The Amethyst Dragon wrote:
wail of the banshee - Leaving delay as is so that timing of the "hit" on targets stays close to timing of the banshee's "wail". Found where death spells were having a save vs. negative energy...the script was auto-setting that type for death spells based on the damage type of the spells if the saves are successful...fixed for next module update.

I dont really subscribe to notion of the visual being more important than the fact that the delay can cause a PC to suffer wrongful deaths. Especially because my PCs have lost tens of thousands of XP to this design flaw.

Why not speed up the banshee animation, or reduce the time it takes to 'wail' if the visual is so important? That way the delay can be reduced or eliminated and save PCs from taking attacks from enemies they have already rightfully killed.
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by MannyJabrielle on Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:13 pm

I have to agree about wail (and weird also seems to be a tad delayed).

I'd rather function over flash.

The spell effect should take effect when the saving throw's done, not almost a full round later.
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by daveyeisley on Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:40 am

info updated later in thread


Last edited by daveyeisley on Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by daveyeisley on Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:38 am

Tested sunburst after a reset.... still not blinding targets on failed saves. Horrid Wilting broke a door, too.

Edit: just tested again, and horrid didnt break a door.... strange things afoot with spells changing without server reset.


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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by daveyeisley on Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:18 am

Crid being a level 40 pure wizard paragon with maxed out spellcraft skill, he should be getting 8 casts of epic magic per day.... however, each time he gets down to his last usage for the day and then tries to cast something with that last usage... he gets the error that he does not have the ability to cast any epic spells at this time.
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by daveyeisley on Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:20 am

updated later in thread


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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by Eric of Atrophy on Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:38 am

daveyeisley wrote:2. Spectra's Aurashift Powder, via the ;;spectra weapon xxxx command, does not seem to be working.
I was able to use it successfully a day or so ago. Specifically, the weapons it worked on were a heavy flail, a warhammer and a rapier. Was able to cycle through the various settings as well (acid, electric, frost, etc.) ...
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by A_Vagabond on Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:25 pm

For the aura I've found I need something else from her shop (like tattoo ink) and then it works fine, whilst it seems to do nothing on it's own.
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by Eric of Atrophy on Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:28 pm

A_Vagabond wrote:For the aura I've found I need something else from her shop (like tattoo ink) and then it works fine, whilst it seems to do nothing on it's own.
I think that during its initial introduction, the aurashift powder did require that the user have some of spectra's inks in her possession, as well. Then, after the advent of the vc commands, that requirement seemed to go the way of the kiwi ...
I could be waaaay off base here, though ...
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by Eric of Atrophy on Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:32 pm

daveyeisley wrote:Updated
8. Wail of the Banshee has the delay before killing enemies who fail the save.
I understand the want for the actions of the spell to line up with the looks of the spell, but I agree with dave and manny ... a case of the spell looking proper should not skew with the mechanics of the spell. Would there be a way to prevent the affected foes from moving or making additional attacks against the PC when the saving throw is failed?


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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by MannyJabrielle on Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:09 pm

For wail and weird... the vfx is rather "slow". I'd almost see it "lining up" with the actual kill if the VFX fires off at the "soandso is casting" stage. By the time you hit "soandso casts", the visial will be in full effect, hitting it's "high point" right when the saving throws are made.
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by daveyeisley on Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:48 am

updated later in thread


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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by A_Vagabond on Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:30 am

For wail, it's the banshee killing the baddies, not the caster. The caster just summons the banshee spirit for one act: wailing. So, to me at least, it makes sense that there's a slight delay. It's not a full round, just a few seconds. And yes, I've been killed by the 'marked for dead' as well; a pitfall or weakness of a spell that is otherwise extremely potent. Personally, I accept it as the price of the power. Weird is similar, you make an illusion, and the enemies respond to that. There's a perception time before you poop your pants and die.

Just my opinion. Although I will point out that sometimes critters get an extra hit after they die for other reasons, due to NWN engine vagaries.
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by MannyJabrielle on Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:12 pm

But... There is no banshee. Wail is not a summoning spell.

The "banshee" is purely visual, something cookedup by bioware for pretty graphic eye candy.

In PnP, the spell isn't a targettable AoE either, it's centered around the caster, who emits the scream. No summoning creatures involved.

With Weird, yes, there's a perception, but I have never seen someone stare at something for a time before getting scared.

For example, someone scared of bugs. Put a bug or even something vaguely resembling a bug on their shoulder. They don't sit there a few seconds to respond.

The response is usually at the instant they notice the thing on their shoulder, they're swiping at the thing to get it off and getting jumpy/hysterical before they can even fully recognize what kind of bug it is, or if it even really is a bug at all.

I don't think that it's a powerful spell should really be used to justify broken mechanics.
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by A_Vagabond on Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:16 pm

Didn't know about the PnP.

Statement retracted.

Razz
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by daveyeisley on Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:49 pm

Yeah... to sum it up... in PnP, when you say "I cast wail of the banshee" or "I cast weird", etc.... the DM rolls the saving throws and the enemies who fail simply die.... right then.... no delay.... no extra actions.... just dead.

The delay is inconsistent with spellcasting in PnP, as well as 90% of the other spells in NWN that have a casting time of 1 standard action. It will be a happy day if we can get it removed Smile
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by Eric of Atrophy on Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:13 pm

MannyJabrielle wrote:... I have never seen someone stare at something for a time before getting scared.

For example, someone scared of bugs. Put a bug or even something vaguely resembling a bug on their shoulder. They don't sit there a few seconds to respond.

The response is usually at the instant they notice the thing on their shoulder, they're swiping at the thing to get it off and getting jumpy/hysterical before they can even fully recognize what kind of bug it is, or if it even really is a bug at all.
I can totally vouch for this, as one who is constantly looking over his shoulder, on feet, etc. for basement caterpillars ... give me teh shivers!

But, yeah, it would be nice to see the affected baddies just drop dead. Sweet and to the point.
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by daveyeisley on Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:44 am

updated later in thread


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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by MannyJabrielle on Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:47 am

Aid and bless are both broken. Neither is granting the +1 AB bonus. Aid is granting the bonus HP. Not sure if the bonus to will saves vs fear are being applied as that doesnt register on the character sheet. Kaz however reported that those two were working from the potions. They did not work for two of my characters, either cast through cleric spell list, or through potions. Casted on Crideas, he reported no AB boost from either.


Pacify/Mass Pacify: This spell is actually quite majorly busted. Retested it on orcs in the training camp. The targets get the swirly 'dominated' VFX around their heads, but they aren't actually dominated. They are still hostile, and they only stop their attacks for a few seconds, then it's back to hacking away. The XP gained seems a bit off too. 4 XP for bonking an orc over the head... 64 xp for casting pacify on it. Further tests on kobolds was also yeilding 12 to 64 XP per target.

Further more... after being affected by the spell, the targets turned immortal. Which is a bit of a problem.

*edit: removed a speculation about the XP that turned out not to be a problem afterall Razz
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by daveyeisley on Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:01 am

An issue Elhanan/Aerik and I ran into the other night... we were in the Dark Realm standing next to the Monument of Blasphemy, talking. We got a full respawn right on top of us.

I figured it was the perfect opportunity to cast Timestop and buy myself and my party a little time.

I cast it. It froze my party. It froze all the enemies.... except one. The most dangerous.... the Darkfire Reaver. He proceeded to key in on poor, defenseless Aerik and slaughter him. Aerik couldn't defend himself at all... not even healing potions, nothing. And it was because of MY spell. We would have been better off if I hadn't cast it at all.

That got me to thinking. If the spell can backfire like that... it's too risky to use in a party situation... BUT.... if we changed it so that the party was not affected... then it would be even worse... baddies standing still while the whole party beats them down.... totally Overpowered.

So, I continued that line of thought... what is it about the current implementation that is causing the problem?

It isnt the fact that the party can/probably will be affected... it is the fact that powerful enemies have a chance NOT to be affected. NPC bosses can get MUCH higher saves than PCs... and that is a good thing regarding making boss encounters challenging.... however...

Timestop doesnt do damage or kill anything. It just buys the caster a few safe seconds. Totally defensive. It was designed for use in very deadly situations where a caster needs that extra time. If powerful bosses can resist it, then it has the chance to totally backfire, wasting a critical opportunity, a 9th level spell slot, and probably getting party members killed on top of that.

I think it is time we got rid of that saving throw, and made the spell's effect automatic like it is in PnP. It needs to be reliable, and certainly not a liability.





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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by daveyeisley on Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:05 am

updated later in thread


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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by MannyJabrielle on Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:14 am

I agree on the timestop thing. I won't even use the spell if there's someone else on the server as the spell affectes the entire current area, and it's a crapshoot about who's gonna get messed up, the baddies or the players. I can't tell who else is in the current area unless they're within view.

And most importantly, as a player, I simply don't want to take the chance of ruining the night's gaming fun for another player who did nothing other than happen to be within the same zone as me.

If it's made to affect everyone but the caster without fail, that would keep it balanced.

As it stands, how "effective" the spell is has very little to do with the caster's actual abilities, and more a juggling of probabilities between the enemies saves and your allie's saves.


PS, an edit Dave for pacify... mass pacify's sorta functioning, regular single target pacify's not though... no XP/VFX/immortality with that one
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by Elhanan on Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:44 am

Here is another for Time Stop to be made party friendly; let the debate continue for ST for opposition, but it is a 9th lvl slot.
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Re: Updated - Consolidated List of Magic Issues

Post by Eric of Atrophy on Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:01 pm

I don't use it, personally, but I totally support the mechanics change to make it more of an asset for the caster.
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