Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

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Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Fri May 11, 2012 10:01 pm

I've never really liked the term "halfling". It's like the game designers said, "Well, we can't legally call them hobbits, and they're close to half the size of a human, so let's just call them halflings." 3rd Edition D&D made them even less hobbit-like and more "small human or elf like", which I don't mind in the least.

I'm starting on a minor project rebranding the Aenean halfling race a little. I'm changing their racial name from "halfling" to "fae". Yes, distantly related to the fey/faerie/fairy races, but still a race unto themselves. Maybe kind of like little half-elves instead of little humans. All of their stats, abilities, feats, skills, and appearances (and everything else) will stay the same, just the name will change. Maybe some slight background additions, but nothing serious. Halflings were never really heavily developed as a separate society in Aenea anyway...this way they may start to build up more of a societal personality (like the elves, dwarves, gnomes, and orcs presently have).

Subraces will eventually get changed a little bit, so a "goblin kin halfling" will become a "goblin kin fae", a "demonspawn halfling" will become a "demonspawn fae", etc. Again, just name changes. Same with in-game language system references.

And no, I'm still not ever going to call them "hin".

I'm updating the aenea.tlk file with the change. I'm also updating my copy of the dialog.tlk file, so anyone that wants the updated version will be able to download it and automatically get the changes, even during character creation (just be sure to make a backup of your original dialog.tlk file beforehand, unless you want to replace the word "halfling" with "fae" in every module/PW you play).

Updates to references to halfings on the website and in the PW module will start filtering in as I make them (after the updated .tlk files become available).


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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by eeriegeek on Fri May 11, 2012 10:54 pm

Actually, it was the Northern Dúnedain that originated the name periannath or, transliterated to english, halfling (per- is the elvish root for half-). They were indeed called halflings because they were about 1/2 the height of the Dúnedain. Only the Hobbits really call themselves Hobbits . For example, a quote from Gandalf, "Saruman: Your love of the Halflings' leaf has clearly slowed your mind."
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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by Ramana Jala on Sat May 12, 2012 8:31 am

The word Fae is defined as a fairy race or at the very least a magical race, and traditionally the most humanoid creature therein was the satyr or nymph. To put a non-magical race in that category seems a real stretch outside the definition. One wouldn't put Elves in the Fae category, and it could be argued that they are more closely related to magical creatures than the totally non-magical Halflings.

And like Eeriegeek said, Halfling is a respectable enough term derived from Tolkien mythology, even though it's what other races call them. Personally, I'd do a bit of research to see if it could be determined what the Halflings call themselves in their own language, if such language exists anywhere in literature. And I wouldn't call them Hin either, that's the Elven word for 'child', and could be seen as derogatory.


P.s. - A search of Halfling language has netted that it may be a simplified derivative of Elvish or/and Common, but always written in the Common script. From one translator, The Halfling word for 'people' is 'Biybci', which as most native tribes called themselves "the people" in their own language, might be appropriate. 'The People' would be 'Dni Biybci', 'Our People' would be 'Yoh Biybci'. Or the word for 'us' is 'Om', which is what a Halfling might call himself and his race.


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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by Angel of Death on Sat May 12, 2012 4:39 pm

Ramana Jala wrote:The word Fae is defined as a fairy race or at the very least a magical race, and traditionally the most humanoid creature therein was the satyr or nymph. To put a non-magical race in that category seems a real stretch outside the definition. One wouldn't put Elves in the Fae category, and it could be argued that they are more closely related to magical creatures than the totally non-magical Halflings.

And like Eeriegeek said, Halfling is a respectable enough term derived from Tolkien mythology, even though it's what other races call them. Personally, I'd do a bit of research to see if it could be determined what the Halflings call themselves in their own language, if such language exists anywhere in literature. And I wouldn't call them Hin either, that's the Elven word for 'child', and could be seen as derogatory.

I am no real expert on Aenea's setting and it's own specific lore, but I wouldn't say it's that farfetched to change the race from halflings to fae...

Should you believe the mythic origin of halflings described in the A D&D sourcebook: Races of the Wild, the goddess Yondalla created the halfling race from a pixie, using it as a vessel and infused it with the agility of elves, the devotion for family and clan from the dwarves, the boldness of the orcs, and the adaptability of the humans.

But yeah, in that book, she also just name her race she created 'halflings'. =/

I hold no particular fondness for the term 'halfling' either though.
Actually, I much prefer the term 'hin' when I play on servers which setting are based on Forgotten Realm's lore (mainly because in the FRCS, page 195, they prefer that term over being called 'halfling'--but does not get mad when "tall folks" call them that, since 'they do not know any better' XD).
Exact quote: "Luiren halflings does not see themselves half of anything or anyone, and generally refers to themselves as hin." <- Forgotten Realm's setting though...

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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by Ramana Jala on Sat May 12, 2012 5:42 pm

Lol, yes, that same page 54 in Races of the Wild relates that, being as Halflings have never been into writing down their history, means that it's unknown how much truth is in any of their creation legends. Like that Yondalla genetic experiment version (that supposedly deprived those other races of the qualities stolen to infuse that reluctant pixie).

I could see that perhaps a similar type of smallish race has evolved in different environments, and if in Aenea they actually did come directly from Fey/Fae, so be it. (I'd actually very much like to know what the canonical Aenean lore about them has been determined to be, as I've been sort of building an area for Aenea with Fey in it, and perhaps I should think about put a Halfling village nearby?)

In any case, I believe that their name should be something unique to them, which is why I've suggested taking a word (biybci, 'people', or one of the versions I've mentioned above) from the best approximation of their own language to call them by.


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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by Angel of Death on Sat May 12, 2012 6:31 pm

Ramana Jala wrote:Lol, yes, that same page 54 in Races of the Wild relates that, being as Halflings have never been into writing down their history, means that it's unknown how much truth is in any of their creation legends. Like that Yondalla genetic experiment version (that supposedly deprived those other races of the qualities stolen to infuse that reluctant pixie).

Well, yes, there is that too, which is why I started out with the wording "Should you believe...", but regardless of that. Isn't there a grain of truth in every tale told? Razz

Either way.

I kind of prefer 'fae' than 'biybci' (and any variation of it), the latter sounds a bit too clumsy when spoken/written. My thinking is that when choosing a name for a race it need to be as plain as possible, without being too complex to pronounce. (If that makes sense at all?)

Just my opinion though. Smile

PS: On a sidenote, I have never viewed the hobbits of the Tolkien setting and the halflings of the DnD setting as the same race. For me, it's like comparing the Kender race of the Dragonlance setting and the halfling/hin race of the Forgotten Realm setting. . .they may have their similarities, but they also have many different traits, not to mention that their culture are a world apart from one another, and therefore cannot really be seen as the same race at all.

. . .still, just my view of it. Smile
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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by Ramana Jala on Sun May 13, 2012 8:21 am

Although I grant that most legends and mythologies have some basis in fact or are a parable of natural law, sometimes the major grain of truth in a created history is the desire to inflate importance. Wink

I'm not sure how the word 'biybci' is pronounced, but I'm sure we could settle on something, or even anglicize the spelling a little bit to make it more friendly for outsiders to use. I think that some word derived from what the 'Halflings' call themselves would be most appropriate. Think about it from the Welsh point of view, a proud people who don't want to be called by outsiders' views of them, but have all their road signs bilingually in Welsh and with the anglicized version of the place names.

And my implication in stating that different smallish races could have evolved independently in different areas agrees with your view of the hobbits and the halflings as being different races. Thus the culture of the smallish race on Aenea could have either been imported through the Rift, or developed here independently through the aeons, or a mixture of both, turning Aenean small folk into their own unique phenotype and culture.

Only The Amethyst Dragon can tell us the Aenean canon.
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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by Elhanan on Sun May 13, 2012 8:52 am

FWIW, I find Fae to be a little obscure for our little people, and prefer the simplicity of Halfling. That said, I have yet to play one in Aenea; pref Dwarves, Demonspawn, and Bright Gnomes, so it has little importannce to me.
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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by Christopher Robin R2 on Sun May 13, 2012 2:26 pm

[quote="Angel of Death"]
Ramana Jala wrote:PS: On a sidenote, I have never viewed the hobbits of the Tolkien setting and the halflings of the DnD setting as the same race. For me, it's like comparing the Kender race of the Dragonlance setting and the halfling/hin race of the Forgotten Realm setting. . .they may have their similarities, but they also have many different traits, not to mention that their culture are a world apart from one another, and therefore cannot really be seen as the same race at all.

. . .still, just my view of it. Smile
You haven't played old enough D&D. Go back to say, Redbox, when for everything except humans race WAS class. The Halfling was basically a variant version of the Thief, and it was very much based on the Hobbit. Like, lifted from the books right down to the hairy feet. As D&D has over time come to be less trying to model LotR, and more itself (Like the Ouroboros) halfings have moved away from that.
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I've never really liked the term "halfling"

Post by Belarric on Sun May 13, 2012 6:52 pm

This is funny Smile
Who would thought that such a simple statement would cause such a furor; but
also the amount of information people have at their fingertips

There is a lot of information coming out but the statement still stands I'm afraid Very Happy Very Happy
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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by Angel of Death on Sun May 13, 2012 8:13 pm

Christopher Robin R2 wrote:
You haven't played old enough D&D. Go back to say, Redbox, when for everything except humans race WAS class. The Halfling was basically a variant version of the Thief, and it was very much based on the Hobbit. Like, lifted from the books right down to the hairy feet. As D&D has over time come to be less trying to model LotR, and more itself (Like the Ouroboros) halfings have moved away from that.

Oh? You're right in that all my lore is extracted from the 2ED up through 3.5ED, since I never felt like going further back than that to enjoy the game (4ED doesn't exist... jocolor ). ^^

Even if your right about that early edition, I would rather play with the editions which made them stand apart from hobbits and molded into a race of their own, with different culture and background. Smile


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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Mon May 14, 2012 2:44 pm

When this name/background change starts, I'm going to start adding in little things that link these smaller beings with their fey ancestors and with Aenean history. Maybe some items here and there. Books with snippets of history. Oh, and a prestige class called the Fey Adept that gains things like invisibility (regular, not improved) and a few other spell-like abilities as feats (several times/day) and at 10th level actually gains wings to fly with.

As far as things that are "canon" in Aenea...I'm making this up as I go along. There's some things even in the online version that were never part of the PnP version (for instance, most of the subraces and prestige/semi classes). I'm not stuck on adhering to material from background from books or other worlds when developing for Aenea. Sure, it's nice to have some prior knowledge for things like game mechanics, but for things like this, I have no problem making a change to a PC/NPC race...especially with a race like the halflings, where a change like this isn't going to suddenly "invalidate" anything previously written into Aenea or into PC concepts.

Just look at orcs...in most other worlds they are usually a brutish, short-sighted bunch that just want to destroy everything, and are easily outsmarted by the average humans/dwarves/elves...in Aenea they are just as smart as humans, and have conquered an empire with lands that are vast compared to many other nations.

Plus, since there aren't other gods/goddesses besides the 20 in the Aenean pantheon (such as from the Forgotten Realms, or Greyhawk, or Dragonlance, etc.), there's not worrying about "halfling gods", "elven gods", "orc gods", (and others) and their various creation stories.

Halflings have, to me, always looked like a race that wasn't as integral to D&D as say dwarves, elves, or even orcs. They just seem to be a mix of hobbits and humans...which is basically saying "small, rural people that get along fine with humans". They've never really had a unique backstory or tie-ins in Aenea.

I think I'm going to be portraying the renamed little people as descendants of faeries and humans from loooong ago, so many generations ago (thousands of years) that they've become a race on their own, more different from their ancestors than half-elves are from elves and humans.

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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by Angel of Death on Mon May 14, 2012 4:14 pm

Aha. I see.

I can't wait to go search for said books/historical items when they've been added to the server. Smile
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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by Eric of Atrophy on Mon May 14, 2012 8:08 pm

Elhanan wrote:That said, I have yet to play one in Aenea; pref Dwarves, Demonspawn, and Bright Gnomes, so it has little importannce to me.
Aye, I hear ya, Elhanan ... six of one, halfling dozen of the other ...

In all seriousness, I fully support the change ... I am always interested to see what deviations The Amethyst Dragon has in store for Aenea!
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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by Elhanan on Mon May 14, 2012 9:42 pm

Eric of Atrophy wrote:Aye, I hear ya, Elhanan ... six of one, halfling dozen of the other ...

In all seriousness, I fully support the change ... I am always interested to see what deviations The Amethyst Dragon has in store for Aenea!

Well, remaking all that code is such a daunting feet that it takes a more technical sole than myself to toe that line of code.... jocolor
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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by eeriegeek on Tue May 15, 2012 6:15 pm

Just to be entirely pedantic, fae and fay both have essentially the same meaning as fairy while fey means something quite different. tongue
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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by daveyeisley on Wed May 16, 2012 2:12 am

I am mostly ambivalent on this. Can see for and against, but i think it mainly will come down to how it is presented, so I'll just wait and see.
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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by Ramana Jala on Wed May 16, 2012 3:57 pm

eeriegeek wrote:Just to be entirely pedantic, fae and fay both have essentially the same meaning as fairy while fey means something quite different. tongue
I hesitated to belabor this pendantic point, but could you quote a source that irrevocably excludes 'fey' from having at least one of its definitions the same as 'fae' or 'fay'?

My research shows that 'fae', 'fey', and 'fay' have at least one definition each in common concerning the magical or fairy-like, although of course each of those words can under different circumstances and language settings have other meanings.

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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by Elhanan on Wed May 16, 2012 5:20 pm

Perhaps they may be related to Fee, Fie, Foe, or Fum; would help explain the size issues at least.... Suspect
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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by Kefrem on Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:04 am

hmmm could call them faelings...kinda like gelfling from dark crystal. Say....is there a chance the looks will be made a little more right? for a halfling they sure are tall...man lol

On an interesting note...orcs,hobgoblins,goblins and most of those *other* standard low level enemy races were actually fae as well...i got a historical book in it. In truth *hobgoblins* where creatures of the dreamrealm...the name meant essentially *dreamstalker* ...basically nightmares...and lets not even go there on the horse by that name lol
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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:27 pm

I've been busy updating the module for this change. Lots of references here and there.

Just last night I finally updated the languages stuff, changed the name of the halfling commune area to the fae commune, updated a bunch of NPCs, and fixed the subrace coding and signs.

If you have a previous halfling character with a subrace, the subrace name should now automatically be updated on the character sheet next time you log in with that character.

If anyone comes across any other in-game text references to "halflings", can you please post here with the name of the item or creature and the location you found it in-game? Thanks.

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Goblin Caves Halfling Reference

Post by odbo255 on Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:30 pm

In the goblin caves NE of Vale, towards the end of the caves is scrawled "halflings are dum" [sic]
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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by odbo255 on Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:54 pm

Seamstress models in Tradeholm list halfling as a racial appearance choice.
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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:10 pm

Thanks! I'll fix that one next time I get the toolset open.

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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by gutwrench66kg on Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:26 am

Sleeping Dragon Inn has a Halfling Brew for sale... Might simply rename it to the region that they're from?
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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by Eric of Atrophy on Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:07 pm

The Amethyst Dragon, did you change the HoD halfling reference to fae? I don't recall ...

Indeed, The Amethyst Dragon, you had changed the HoD references, as a visit to the suggestion forum told me ...
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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by gutwrench66kg on Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:46 pm

The goblinkin fellow in the ruined docks tower in Macedone uses "look what the halfling dragged in.." in his conversation.
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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by Belarric on Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:38 am

I noticed the language tome states Halfling still
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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by Angel of Death on Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:23 am

Another little thing I noticed during selection of a subrace, it seems the conversation menu for halflings still carries the halfling name after the subrace name.

Ex.

"You are able to select a subrace, which will grant you extra abilities, but with a price."
"*1) I choose to become a Goblin Kin Halfling"
"*2) I choose to become a Mouse Blood Halfling"

Etc, etc...followed by all the other various subraces available. (:
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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:25 pm

Thanks for the info. Will get these updated in the near future.

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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by gutwrench66kg on Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:57 am

Book: Colors of Aenea

Amidst the story, the Wizard curses at a "halfling"
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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by Angel of Death on Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:10 am

http://www.amethyst-dragon.com/nwn/vc_guide.htm

^ The language-related commands on the website still displays halfling instead of fae.
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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:04 am

Thanks, I'll get this updated.

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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by RustyDios on Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:38 am

Angel of Death wrote:http://www.amethyst-dragon.com/nwn/vc_guide.htm

^ The language-related commands on the website still displays halfling instead of fae.

Which also means Eric_of_Atrophy 's Text file friendly list will need updating too Smile

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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by Eric of Atrophy on Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:54 pm

RustyDios wrote:
Angel of Death wrote:http://www.amethyst-dragon.com/nwn/vc_guide.htm

^ The language-related commands on the website still displays halfling instead of fae.

Which also means Eric_of_Atrophy 's Text file friendly list will need updating too Smile

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Thank you for the reminder, RustyDios. Noted and updated! Razz
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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by odbo255 on Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:37 am

Arcane abyss prison cell: bloody halfling corpse


Last edited by The Amethyst Dragon on Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:14 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : fixed for next module update)
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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by odbo255 on Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:02 pm

The juvenile Amethyst Dragon in Silverfist territory still refers to wee folk as halflings.
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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by odbo255 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:20 pm

Entrom in Macedone still sells halfling stout.


Last edited by The Amethyst Dragon on Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:15 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Fixed for next module update.)
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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:18 pm

odbo255 wrote:The juvenile Amethyst Dragon in Silverfist territory still refers to wee folk as halflings.
Do you have the optional Aenea version of dialog.tlk in your NWN folder? If not, for playing in Aenea I would suggest making a backup of the original one, then downloading the Aenea version, which changes all NWN default text lines from "halfling" to "fae".

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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by odbo255 on Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:45 pm

The Amethyst Dragon wrote:Do you have the optional dialog.tlk in your NWN folder?

I do, and have had since it was last updated in June. The "other" The Amethyst Dragon still addressed Fren as a halfling instead of a fae.
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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:10 am

Odd, since it's conversation is just calling the default racial type string, which should have changed with that .tlk change.

I'll have to dig deeper.

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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by odbo255 on Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:04 am

Macedone wizard's hall:

Bigriado Zedelener: Yes? Can I help you with something, Madam Halfling?
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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by Angel of Death on Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:11 am

Gordon Finraven's dialogue need to be updated. He still addresses fae as halflings. Smile
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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:30 pm

Do you have the optional Aenea version of dialog.tlk?

If you do, then I need to figure out where the racial conversation tokens are stored.

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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by Angel of Death on Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:49 pm

Nope, don't got the aenea-customed dialog.tlk Smile
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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

Post by MannyJabrielle on Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:40 am

The 'target type limitation" button on the epic research panel placeable object still says "halfling".
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Re: Jun. 11, 2012: Minor Racial Change: Halflings

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