Staves of Fulfillment, Empowerment, Persistence, Steps, Elemental Substitutions, Magic Schools

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Staves of Fulfillment, Empowerment, Persistence, Steps, Elemental Substitutions, Magic Schools

Post by Ramana Jala on Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:27 am


My wizard has a Staff of the Necromancer, and just picked up a Staff of Fulfillment (Maximize), and I was thinking about acquiring one or two more of those staves that Lady Shea sells, like the Staves of Empowerment and Persistence.

But I don't really know what any of them specifically do, besides understanding in a general way that they somehow augment certain spells.

I searched the forums, but no related hits for all the different keywords I used.

Is there any info available on these various magic-helper staves, or do I just have to buy them then decipher the used/not used combat logs to see what they do exactly?



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Re: Staves of Fulfillment, Empowerment, Persistence, Steps, Elemental Substitutions, Magic Schools

Post by MannyJabrielle on Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:59 am

Been searching the forums for the info since you mentioned it in game... haven't found it either, but I could have sworn the info was posted here somewhere.

For the time being... what I can remember...

Staves of empowerment/persistence/ect cause spells you cast to act as if cast with the relevant metamagics (persistance makes all your spells cast as if extended).

The substitution staves.... They make all your element based damage spells switch to the stave's element. For example, cast fireball when holding a staff of acid substitution, and you're fireball turns into an acid ball.

Staff of steps... can't remember what these do. SOmething with caster levels though.

Staff of <spellschool> I *think* these add a bit to your DC's for spells of that school. Not positive though.
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Re: Staves of Fulfillment, Empowerment, Persistence, Steps, Elemental Substitutions, Magic Schools

Post by Ramana Jala on Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:54 am


Thanks for trying to help!

You've at least confirmed that the staves generally add some property that is automatically applied to the spells that one already has available --i.e., spell slots don't have to be configured, nor does the property or specific spell to augment have to be chosen (with the item) upon casting.


MannyJabrielle wrote:
Staves of empowerment/persistence/ect cause spells you cast to act as if cast with the relevant metamagics (persistance makes all your spells cast as if extended).
Does this means that Persistence makes every spell cast into an Extended version? Even those spells that might not be on the Extend Spell list? Does it Extend Level 9 spells?



MannyJabrielle wrote:
Staff of <spellschool> I *think* these add a bit to your DC's for spells of that school. Not positive though.
Would like to know the specific mechanics, and hopefully this one stacks with Spell Focus.
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Re: Staves of Fulfillment, Empowerment, Persistence, Steps, Elemental Substitutions, Magic Schools

Post by Angel of Death on Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:15 am

On this question;
Ramana Jala wrote:
MannyJabrielle wrote:
Staff of <spellschool> I *think* these add a bit to your DC's for spells of that school. Not positive though.
Would like to know the specific mechanics, and hopefully this one stacks with Spell Focus.

I haven't been playing for a while, but if I recall correct, those staves adds a +2 DC to spells when casting a spell of the relevant spell school.

Example: A wizard wielding staff of evocation and casts a fireball, the enemy hit by said fireball, is required to roll a reflex save two points higher than if he weren't wielding the staff in order to avoid/take half damage.

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Re: Staves of Fulfillment, Empowerment, Persistence, Steps, Elemental Substitutions, Magic Schools

Post by Ramana Jala on Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:21 am


Thanks, AoD, for that explanation.

And good to see you again, btw!

Do you know anything about the Staves of Steps?
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Re: Staves of Fulfillment, Empowerment, Persistence, Steps, Elemental Substitutions, Magic Schools

Post by Angel of Death on Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:56 pm

Ramana Jala wrote:
Thanks, AoD, for that explanation.

And good to see you again, btw!

Do you know anything about the Staves of Steps?

Anytime, and thanks. Lots to catch up on; it seems like there's added a ton of new stuff in the few months I haven't been in-game. The wheels in the dragon's workshop never stop turning... XD

Regarding the Staves of Steps...

Uuhhh...it's like Manny said, they do something with caster levels...aka I don't remember the exact benefits. Razz
I know Anna, my FarstepChaos Master, carries one around often...not that it helps anything in understanding what it does. V:


My mind went on a detour while cooking dinner and found the niche where I had stored the memories of all things Aenean; I think the Staff of Steps affects the total character level of spells when equipped.

So, as an example... A level 5 wizard with a Staff of Steps I casting a Magic Missile spell at someone/something is regarded as a level 8 wizard for that spell for all purposes (saves, SR, DC, etc).
Furthermore...
Staff of Steps I affects spells up to 3rd level
Staff of Steps II affects spells up to 6th level
Staff of Steps III affects all spells.

/This is all based on my memory, so I take no responsibility about any errors in this post. :p
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Re: Staves of Fulfillment, Empowerment, Persistence, Steps, Elemental Substitutions, Magic Schools

Post by Ramana Jala on Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:46 pm


Ah, that's at least a premise to experiment on. Thanks!

Although there's nine numbered Staves of Steps, which would imply one for each spell level. study
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Re: Staves of Fulfillment, Empowerment, Persistence, Steps, Elemental Substitutions, Magic Schools

Post by MannyJabrielle on Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:54 pm


Does this means that Persistence makes every spell cast into an Extended version? Even those spells that might not be on the Extend Spell list? Does it Extend Level 9 spells?

No, just spells that can be extended. Can't extend instantaneous spells. Yes, you can extend 9th level spells, maximize 8th level spells such as Horrid's, ect.

Staff of Steps I affects spells up to 3rd level
Staff of Steps II affects spells up to 6th level
Staff of Steps III affects all spells.

There's a staff of steps for each spell level, not just three. That formula sounds more like the Auto-quicken/Auto-still feats.
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Re: Staves of Fulfillment, Empowerment, Persistence, Steps, Elemental Substitutions, Magic Schools

Post by Angel of Death on Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:57 pm

Ramana Jala wrote:
Although there's nine numbered Staves of Steps, which would imply one for each spell level. study
Oh right, must have mixed them up with something else. >.>

BUT! I take no responsibility for errors in my past post, so it's all good. Razz
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Re: Staves of Fulfillment, Empowerment, Persistence, Steps, Elemental Substitutions, Magic Schools

Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:26 pm

The metamagic staves work much like regular metamagic feats, except they just have to be in hand. They do have limits...using such a staff is still capped as if using the metamagic feat (so most do not work with 9th level spells, since you can't "push" spells beyond "9th level" with these staves). They just have to be equipped to work, and allow you to virutually use two metamagic effects on a spell (if you prepared/cast such a spell with a regular metamagic setting)...so with a staff you could actually both Maximize and Empower a fireball (making it a virtual 8th level spell...3rd +2 (empower) +3 (maximize)).

staff of steps
- This works like the PnP Heighten Spell feat. Each such stafff raises the effective spell level up one or more "steps" (spell levels), to a maximum of 9th level. This basically just increases the spell save DCs.

staff of persistence - This one works like casting spells with the Extend Spell feat. Works on all spells 0-8th level that have non-instant or have caster-level dependent durations.

staff of fulfillment - Works like casting with the Maximize Spell feat. Works with level 0-6 spells.

staff of expansion - Works like casting with the PnP Widen Spell feat, changing area spells (such as fireball) to the next highest standard radius (small -> large, large -> huge, huge -> gargantuan, gargantuan -> collossal). Works with level 0-6 spells.

staff of empowerment - Works like casting with the Empower Spell feat. Works with level 0-7 spells.

staff of x substitution - Works like the PnP elemental substitution feats. Changes the damage for "elemental" spells (fire, cold, electricity, acid, sonic) to the one the staff matches. Doesn't alter virtual spell levels or DCs or anything (like visual effects), just damage type. This is the one of the only types that should work with 9th level spells.

staff of the x (spell school) - Adds +2 to save DCs for spells of the matching spell school. This is the other one of the only types that should work with 9th level spells.

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Re: Staves of Fulfillment, Empowerment, Persistence, Steps, Elemental Substitutions, Magic Schools

Post by MannyJabrielle on Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:13 pm

Could this info be put into the description of the staves?

It's good info for the player to have, especially on tidbits like certain staves only working with X level spells and such.
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Re: Staves of Fulfillment, Empowerment, Persistence, Steps, Elemental Substitutions, Magic Schools

Post by Angel of Death on Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:42 pm

Oh, thanks The Amethyst Dragon! Smile
...knew I was probably remembering wrong about it's purposes. :X
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Re: Staves of Fulfillment, Empowerment, Persistence, Steps, Elemental Substitutions, Magic Schools

Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:51 am

And here I thought that was already part of the metamagic staves...guess I rushed them out without full descriptions.

I'll update the descriptions of all 26 such staves when I get a few spare minutes for the next module update.

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Re: Staves of Fulfillment, Empowerment, Persistence, Steps, Elemental Substitutions, Magic Schools

Post by Ramana Jala on Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:42 am


Thanks for the useful very infos, The Amethyst Dragon ! Now experimentation will be easier.

That's interesting that you can get a double effect by having a feat and then holding a staff of another metamagic feat. I'm eager to try that.

Very Happy
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Re: Staves of Fulfillment, Empowerment, Persistence, Steps, Elemental Substitutions, Magic Schools

Post by Ramana Jala on Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:23 pm


The Amethyst Dragon wrote:
staff of the x (spell school) - Adds +2 to save DCs for spells of the matching spell school. This is the other one of the only types that should work with 9th level spells.
Since this Staff feature looks like it might be granting the Spell Focus Feat (School), I was wondering about something.

Do the Staves of Spell Schools stack with the Spell Focus Feat (School) that is either taken in levelup or on an item (either natively or by upgrade)?

My wizard has Spell Focus Necromancy, so I had assumed that having 061 = Bonus Feat: Spell Focus(Necromancy) on an item would not stack and would be uselessly redundant for her.

But I got to wondering if the Staff of Necromancy is also actually similarly redundant for her, whether it property is just obtained from the same feat, or from some other mechanism.

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Re: Staves of Fulfillment, Empowerment, Persistence, Steps, Elemental Substitutions, Magic Schools

Post by RustyDios on Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:41 pm



I hope this answers you question Smile
I've not tested but I do believe you are correct in assuming that having the feat from an item AND from level-up/selection would overlap each other. You only gain a feat "once" from whatever the source happens to be.

However as we can see from above, she should gain benefit from holding a Staff of (xSchoolx)....
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Re: Staves of Fulfillment, Empowerment, Persistence, Steps, Elemental Substitutions, Magic Schools

Post by Ramana Jala on Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:27 pm


Yes, thank you so much. And another example teaching me how to interpret the combat log. So it's just the DC listed right there.

And one can thus surmise that the Staves of Spell Schools must gain their property by some other method than the feat.
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Re: Staves of Fulfillment, Empowerment, Persistence, Steps, Elemental Substitutions, Magic Schools

Post by MannyJabrielle on Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:18 pm

Yes, the bonus is added through scripting. The Amethyst Dragon's done a huge overall on magic behind the scenes.
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Re: Staves of Fulfillment, Empowerment, Persistence, Steps, Elemental Substitutions, Magic Schools

Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:25 pm

You know, I didn't even think of just adding the school focuses as bonus feats. I was on a roll with the metamagic staves and just did spell school ones at the same time. Rolling Eyes Smile

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Re: Staves of Fulfillment, Empowerment, Persistence, Steps, Elemental Substitutions, Magic Schools

Post by MannyJabrielle on Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:07 pm

The way you did it rocks, no need to downgrade to having them add spell focuses instead :p
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Re: Staves of Fulfillment, Empowerment, Persistence, Steps, Elemental Substitutions, Magic Schools

Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:26 pm

No changes coming to them.

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Re: Staves of Fulfillment, Empowerment, Persistence, Steps, Elemental Substitutions, Magic Schools

Post by A_Vagabond on Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:28 pm

Just a note: the Staff of Persistence seems to have an error in the text. It seems to imply that it does not work on spells that have durations based on rounds/level or hours/level or whatever -- which are exactly the spells you'd want to Extend. I am hoping this is just an error in the description, otherwise I can't see the use of the staff....?
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Re: Staves of Fulfillment, Empowerment, Persistence, Steps, Elemental Substitutions, Magic Schools

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