Diety choice

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Diety choice

Post by Lasombra on Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:23 am

Example solutions for diety change for those who didn't choose a diety-restricted class at level 1:
-Give a special set of relevel scales at level 40 to signify the characters' growth, as they redefine their values.
-Give a special set of relevel scales as a playtime reward(just not in the same chest as the item vouchers, please Razz ) - same reason as above.
-Give an option to change the choice at the beginning of reincarnation/ascension to signify a new beginning.
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Re: Diety choice

Post by daveyeisley on Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:10 am

I think I remember The Amethyst Dragon stating previously that he was reluctant or possibly against adding such an option, but I also think I understood his reasoning.

The problem for players (especially newcomers), however, is that even if you take the time to do all the research and read up on each deity and the information presented on the Aenea website (and lets be honest, most new players probably don't read all of that before making their PC), you eventually find yourself victimized by your ignorance of the full mechanical impact of the choice you made when you created your PC.

Look at how well-received the relevel scales have been. Players love them because building your PC as you level is such a complex process that it is extremely easy to make a mistake that prevents you from achieving your goal with the PC/build. The scales allow a player to fix it without needing DM help, or having to create a whole new PC and grind back up through the levels.

Choices made during character creation are very similar, and players have been thrilled that The Amethyst Dragon has created tools for the DMs to help players adjust things like feat selections with Letoscript so the player can avoid having to rebuild a whole new PC.

Players can find themselves in a similar place due to choosing a deity that doesnt work the way they though, or lacks access to a thing they really wanted for their PC.

Obviously we don't want to encourage constant relevelling, or deity changing.... but I agree that there should be some possibility, with effort, for a player to adjust things. The question then would become - if a player changes their PC's deity.... what systems/variables/scripts might get broken?
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Re: Diety choice

Post by Lasombra on Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:26 pm

This is my view. With many changes to Aenea, especially, I think it's important to have a way to redesign loved characters so that they don't end up with redundant stuff, which limits the character's potential and can often mean a very tough choice between good options that a new character can take without reservation. With as much time as some people invest in their personas, it isn't a viable option to make a new character who would perform the way envisioned for the old one.

Diety change is also only natural - if PCs can change alignments, that implies their new values may often no longer be compatible with the god they used to worship.

I would actually like there to be an option not to worship any, but have some sort of attunement to life energy or something similar - basically the same thing, but not expressed as a sort of devotion, which definitely doesn't fit some character ideas at all. Not everyone is submissive, and not everyone cares at all.
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Re: Diety choice

Post by Angel of Death on Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:52 pm

I think it's a great point. Reincarnation and Ascension are meant as a new start for an otherwise old character; I think it makes perfect sense for a character to be able to change their view (or not!) of the world. I mean, when you decide to go through with reincarnation/ascension, it's easily acceptable that your character has invested a great amount of time beforehand into thinking through all aspects of the choice (and possible wanting to make some changes from how they previously lived their life).

Just my opinion anyway Smile
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Re: Diety choice

Post by MannyJabrielle on Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:13 pm

Selecting a new deity (if desired) at reincarnation and ascension sounds like a fine idea.  It only occurs 2 times per character, and allows one to keep a favorite character more alive RP wise should the character have developed from the initial creation.
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Re: Diety choice

Post by RustyDios on Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:34 pm

It also allows a former Paladin turned Blackguard to revert to Paladin.... I'm not sure that backwards deity step is in there already though...
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Re: Diety choice

Post by MannyJabrielle on Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:41 pm

AFAIK, no.  Once your character switches to ragnor or sorgath via blackguard levels, it sticks.  I tested that a long while ago with my ragnor cleric  He started out as a mystara cleric, but then turned evil (blackguard).  I later then switched his alignment back to neutral good and took a cleric level, stayed a ragnor follower.  I would be fairly certain that the mechanics do not change in any way for Paladins.... so yeah, taking a Paladin down the dark side prior to ascension would not be a good choice ATM.  Upon ascension or reincarnation, you'd have to take another base class before you could qualify for the BG levels again, leaving that 1 paladin level to foulup any levelling plans you may have.
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Re: Diety choice

Post by daveyeisley on Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:21 pm

Aside from the problems for Paladin/Blackguards (which allowing deity switch back to Dalix would most likely actually fix), what else would deity changing possibly break?

With Clerics, as I recall, they all get the same spell selection, and the disallowed spells can still be memorized, its just that you cant cast them because the script checks your deity... so if your deity switches, if I am not mistaken, you would get access to cast the spells you should be able to cast with the new deity, and the old deity's spells would stop working....

Granted spells would normally be an issue, except if we only allow this during reincarnation or ascension, then those would be cleared out of inventory, and the new deity's granted spells would replace them as the PC levels up...

What else might be broken by it? I dont think the Piety score has the deity stored with it, so that would either transfer seamlessly (preferred), or get wiped out by reincarnation/ascension. The bless me command checks deity when cast, I believe, so that should work fine.

Sacrificial flame. deity altars and prayer commands all check the deity variable when they are invoked, so those would work OK after a switch.... I mean.... if we look at this...

The fact that a Dalix worshipping Paladin can have their Deity switched to Ragnor or Sorgath without it screwing everything up would seem to indicate that The Amethyst Dragon designed the deity scripting in such a way that the switch will have minimal negative impact (and possibly none at all).

If The Amethyst Dragon is receptive to trying it, we could test it out before making it available to everyone, but I am not sure it would even break much if anything at all.

And just based on some RP I have been involved in over the years, it would be really cool if PCs could actually change their fundamental views and what god they worship... alignment is only part of that situation, and either choosing to change one's patron or worship none at all could make a lot of RP sense... and having the option would be a way to encourage and incentivise players to RP Smile
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Re: Diety choice

Post by RustyDios on Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:56 am

The Granted Spell I - V are all feats that check the deity on activation too I think.. (there are not 100 new feats for each granted spell/deity 5feats x 20deities).. there are just five feats. So that shouldn't be an issue either.

The thing that would mess up the most I think is the Cleric "Special" abilities that are all granted at different levels, with a complete variety of effects, this could be mitigated if the change is only allowed at reincarnation/ascension.

Being able to change ones deity would be a good choice for that "fresh start".
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Re: Diety choice

Post by MannyJabrielle on Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:22 am

The granted spell I-V feats don't mess up on deity change.  My Ragnor cleric/bg began as a mystara cleric.  His granted spells worked fine both before and after the BG levels which switched him to Ragnor.

The other special abilities are likewise AFAIK scripted to apply just like subrace effects, that is they reapply when you rest.  Likewise here, my ragnor cleric lost all his mystara cleric immunities upon taking the BG levels.
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Re: Diety choice

Post by RustyDios on Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:51 am

So IF ALL the deity specific stuff is flexible per rest/logging in and everything that requires it checks the deity variable when needed.... ... there should be no problem in allowing a player to change their chosen deity....

However I don't think it should be "on the fly" like an alignment change... the deity choice at level one is one of the "fundamentals" of the character set-up... maybe an option at reincarnation/ascension... or a DM controlled action...
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