Feb. 1: Change to XP System

Starting with the next reset on February 1 (today), I am changing Aenea over to a modified version of Scarface's XP system (instead of working from a blank canvas). If all goes well with the live testing, we'll probably stick with it.

With the modifications I've made to it, summons/familiars won't cause as much of a penalty to XP earned, partying up with others will net a small bonus (5%), and battering down doors will get you a couple of XP.

Woohoo! Party Friendly XP!

Wow! That was fast. I hope it works out and goes as advertised...

This mean that hunting with a party will get you MORE XP per kill? For some reason, I'm all a-tingle...

I think you will still have to contend with the party split.... but you will get a bonus to the total before or after said split. Is that correct ?

The Amethyst Dragon wrote:... and battering down doors will get you a couple of XP.

Phyllick was mightily impressed with the doors in Aenea...very few (relatively speaking) can be broken down. Phyllick thought about stealing one from some random village to use as a Tower Sheild as they are pretty much indestructable ("A special key is needed to open that door")...

Would this explain why I went from getting 26 xp per Drow Trainee to 5 xp per?

Naw.... it wouldnt explain that at all..... did you level up by chance? that would affect it....

No, leveling up took me from 46 to 26, then after the reset I was only getting 5.

I also noticed what seemed to be a sharp reduction in XP gained. Grizzly bears went from 84 to 8 and zombie lords were only 7. I did take a level (to 9) just before the change but this still seems like a suspiciously large drop off in XP. If this normal and expected that is fine, but I'm guessing that something isn't quite right with the new system. Died twice trying to find s more rewarding prey so I now I've a huge XP debt to repay. Should only take me a week or two of hunting little critters.

It shouldn't have a sharp drop in XP. I'll go into the toolset later and make some adjustments to see if that makes a difference.

Thanks for the feedback.

I haven't done any signifigant hunting with my low level characters yet, but the bit I've done with my higher level ones, their XP per kills has risen in general. Aurora for example gets 8 XP for fire elementals in the cauldron, while before the change she'd get 4

Well, I dont think the system is working correctly. Shouri was getting around 45 -50 xp per elemental in the tower of esscences... now she's only getting 8... and its not limited to that either, she was getting 8xp for nearly everything she killed so I wrote out a list...
Bandits (All), Silver Stalkers (all), ogres, goblins, kobalds, shadow (all), elementals (all), Greyskull Guards, Zombie Lords, Flesh Golums, Stone Golums and even Cinder Mice!!

The only creatures to give different xp were mindflayers (9), normal trolls (10 & 5 bonus), Frost trolls( 60 & 30 bonus), and the Licy lich 600.... unfortunately my bug testing stopped their but I would have had bee's to report on as well but they killed me (-3000xp doh!)....

This just seems to odd xp behaviour.. the levels of xp seem "wrong" and for such a diverse set of creatures to all give the same ammount of xp?.... Before this change I'm sure the xp ammounts were different for most things as you walk across Aenea.. from 4xp in that group, to 6 xp from x monster, to 5 xp in group c.. etc etc.... not the same for nearly a whole evening!!

Yep, yep, yep! For VierzyneUmrae Noqutyl Helviiryn, drow wizards went from 100 or so xp to 16. The most xp-profitable experience I've had since the changeover was desecrating Harcorth's altar in VV ... that netted me a sweet 90 xp!

Sorry I can't help but inject this...

VierzyneUmrae Noqutyl Helviiryn

Who the hell, how the hell do you pronounce that?... Is there a short hand version... like VUNH ?
Did ye fall asleep on the keyboard during character creation, wake up and think "oh well, what the heck, it looks drow-ish!"

lol Great name for a PC in a world where (90%) of the communication is the written word.. your cruel Eric, very Cruel..... lol

Well, you could always call him "V".

King of Masks calls her Vier ... sounds good to me!

As far as the xp thing goes, I (and I'm sure everyone else does, too) really appreciate all the work that does for us, and I'm sure that this little hiccup will be resolved nicely!

Ok. I just reset the server with a newer version of the new xp script that grabs info from an XP award table I set up as a 2da file.

Tested it on my own and with Mr. OakenShield and it seems to work just fine.

Minimum XP for a kill: 5 XP
Finishing bonus fires if you are in a group and make the killing hit...

Not so great for higher level characters. My 38th level shifter used to get about 500XP for calithian vampire elders, elder beholders, and dracoliches. They now all give 5 XP.

... and my 17th level PC (Shouri) used to get 600xp for the icy lich (which is no easy battle).. but at lunch today she got just 5xp!!... thats a whole 595xp short for a battle that is just as difficult!.. The frost trolls gave her 11xp and NO bonuses... I was solo.. Haven't levelled she the last post...

... Comically sacrificing the lich's remains netted her more at 66xp, and the gold from the trolls (7 or so) got her a nice 102xp!!...

But if xp is going to be this hard to come by... even from the harder enemies, then I'll be giving up with character advancement... and that is a big downer ... Getting a new level is just too difficult, she only has 3000 xp to go (and If I didn't die the other day would be there already)... last week getting around 3000 xp would take a few days sure, but at least it was imaginable and attainable.... .....

Sorry but for the sake of some lost xp whilst in a party.. I prefered the old system...

Sacrificing seems to give much more, there isn't as much of a dropoff when teaming, especially at higher levels (The epic battle we had yesterday would normally have given 1xp per kill, but all of us Beuttlerians were getting 5xp per, which is a significant improvement when killing that many orcs) but low-level soloing is horribly nerfed and frustrating, to the point that I don't want to advance my new rogue along with all the new people we have playing around here, like Nakohe and Xyl, because Malcolm has an XP penalty for being a Shadowchild, and barely gets anything for these kills.

It's not just low level pc's or even mid range, Nightbane is level 25 and got 5 xp for goblins, bandits, skeleton warriors, bison, sm. green slime, stirge, dire spiderling, troll, troll shamen, macedonian soldier, silver stalkers, a strange french speaking gnome, and a few random villagers for good measure. Didn't want to test anything much bigger because of the fear of death. The debt recieved would be awful to try and get rid of at 5 xp per kill.

Back in the toolset now to get things going right...

Ah, I think I discovered part of the problem...creatures with a Challenge Rating of over 40 were improperly giving 0 XP (well, 5 with the minimum I put into the code). XP should cap out for CRs of 41+. Single-kill XP rewards cap at 500 or 600 XP per party member, depending on individual character level.

I'm also extending the XP table to include values for creatures up to 20 CR above and below the average party level. CR values beyond this range will give 5 XP.

In addition, in a party, those that were getting the little 10% bonus for finishing the kill will still get it, but won't be getting a seperate message saying so (to cut down on combat log spam).

This will be after the next reset. I want to get this XP stuff settled down so that it can be rewarding rather than frustrating. I'm just no longer satisfied with the default NWN xp stuff, so that's why all the effort.

I think I can speak for everyone when I say, all of your work is very much appreciated and if anyone can make xp earnings rewarding for all, it would be you

Does this address the low-level problem? I see things there about CR 41+, but what about Drow Trainees going from 26 to 5 in one reset? We've had guys give up on their low levels because the stuff they can handle gives them barely enough xp to get out of debt, then the things that might actually give them xp (or some cheery surprise monster) kills them and starts the process over again.

(Not trying to sound accusatory... I appreciate the revamping, it's just hard for the guys we've just gotten started on the server to get anywhere.)

It should take care of things.


The way the system works (or is supposed to):

When a critter is killed, script fires off:
- Calculates average party level
- Gets Challenge Rating of dead critter
- Looks at the new xp reward 2da file I added (row = ave. level, col = CR)
- Uses 10% of the value of that location on the table (10% is the default NWN rate that's been in use since the server launched...since battle XP comes much faster in NWN than in PnP).
- If killer PC is in a party, adds 5% per party member.
- Each summon/familiar/henchman in the party reduces the XP by 5%.
- Divides XP reward by number of PC party members.
- If killer PC is in a party, he/she gets 10% of this value as a bonus.
- Each PC party member within 10 levels of the party average is awarded an equal share of the XP reward (up to 500 or 600 XP, depending on character level)...plus any reward for making the kill.
- Minimum possible XP per PC is 5 (for creatures that are super easy to kill or way, way beyond what your character should rightfully be able to handle).

If things still need to be adjusted...that's why I'm here and why I like the feedback I'm getting. It helps me improve the game.

Maeglin Dubh wrote:Does this address the low-level problem?...

I was having the same issue, even up to level 8 on two different characters.

I agree with Maeglin's concern about the low level characters, but also wanted to throw out another concern of mine.

Im glad that the XP table is extended to plus or minus 20 from the avg party level... thats great. As long as the kill is within that range.
For things below that avg, I am *ALL* for them giving only 5xp.
For things *above* that range, I can't help but feel like it is a disservice to a lucky or resourceful player to cap their XP at 5 for killing something *way* beyond their level. At the *least* they should get the same XP as they would for killing something at to 20 levels above mark. At *best* they should get more.

The only concern this opens up is a higher level character "powerlevelling" a lowbie. To stop that, I think the best way to handle it is a "weighting system". The % of the Total Party Level (not average, but total) that a characters levels account for should affect the amount of the XP split they recieve. So higher level characters should *eat* the xp from the party split so lowbies don't "over profit".

This would allow for the truly righteous XP rewards for amazing kills, and still prevent powerlevelling.

Another Issue I see with current system:

Level 30 character kills a monster that give them low XP, say like 10 or 15.


Level 30 character then groups with a level 10 character. Kills same monster, gets *more* XP because the avg part lvl is lower, yet they are still within 10 levels of the average, *and* level 10 character gest same XP even though they couldprobably not take that enemy on their own, or would at least have much more difficulty.

It may be better to focus the split more on % of the total party level rather than variance from the average.

The total XP being based on avg party level is fine.... but without
"weighting" it allows for powerlevelling *and* for higher level characters to gain more xp by partying up with lowbies.

We just had an 18, and two fives, do the crypt maze. When we fought zombie lords at the end, Bram Alley (Eighteen) got 11 per, Xyl the Destroyer (5) got 86 per, and Malcolm Dubh (me, 5) got 5 per.

EDIT: We dropped Xyl from the party, I was still only getting five per when we were down in the caves.
EDIT2: Once Xyl got to level 6, he started getting 5 per as well.
EDIT3: Ok, more experimentation.

Bram (Eighteen) kills a Zombie Lord - He gets 11, Xyl got 86 while at level 5, then 5 after reaching level 6, I've been getting 5 the whole time.
Xyl (Now six) kills a Zombie Lord - He gets 5, Bram got 86, and I get 83.
I (five) kill a Zombie Lord - I get 11, Xyl gets 5, and Bram got 86.

Hope some of this might be useful.

I dunno, for a low level character to get low XP from killing something much higher than what his abilities has a logic to it. Say you take up a new sport, game, or any sort of competition or such. You may beat the pro out of sheer dumb luck at first, and you learn -something- from it, but being the newbie, you haven't grasped all the fundamentals and understood them yet. But as your knowledge grows, you start to realize how and why you win when you do, and really 'learn' more fully.

I'm not complaining about the low xp. I'm wondering why two level five characters (both of which had subraces) were getting such wildly different XP rewards.

My issue with the logic pur forth Manny, is that in NWN the "luck" factor cannot possibly account for the success of a PC against something over 20 levels beyond them at any rate sufficient to justify a flat 5xp gain.

The PC would *have* to be well built, well equipped, and well played. Only *then* would they be able to capitalize on any luck.... and in that case, they would be entitled to the full XP for their victory because that is the only way to balance the *risk* they took.

Risk vs. reward is what the game system and character growth is based on, I think.

XP table adjusted again, this time filling in XP for all level ranges vs all CRs...so that lucky kill on something you shouldn't face will net XP.

XP table has been extended to account for level to CR differences of greater than 20.

Cool... thank you !

Hey ,

Bonus XP! .... this used to be for those harder then standard to kill creatures based by thier CR... namely trolls and beholders..... now these creatures have gotten no easier to kill since the xp sytem change, yet their bonus xp doesn't seem to be firing.. just "standard" xp for their CR... is this a bug?... or was the bonus xp for such things removed, deemed no longer neccesary... ...

I ask because trolls still take aaaagggggeeeessss to finish off, and only 5xp..... the bee's are still as deadly acurate with their rays and only 60ish xp (mages break 70xp).... (( illithid venerator's, around the same CR as bee's,, I think,, give the same xp - and they be alot easier) .. ..all this recorded with Jay at lv31... ??

I noticed the same as Rusty, we were in the beholder caves and I was getting the same from venerators as beholders. The bee's are awful accurate, killed Jay twice, hehe.

I wasn't going to mention that Rayven.. ...

D'oh!

I was debating whether to mention the troll and beholder XP bonuses.... but I didn't want to seem like a whiner after all the work had put in on this.... I'm glad somebody mentioned it!

because, youre, 100% correct rusty, those enemies havent gotten any easier or less deadly, lol....

Well I did take some time to think about my decision to post about the bonus xp..... .... The work that has done with the new xp system is astounding .. truely breathtaking, and a levels the playing field, solo and party there is a difference between xp, but its not overbearing... it works great for summons/fams/henchies to syphon off their own xp... ... it works well to compensate being in a group, eith an "I killed it ha! Extra"... it works to make xp gain profitable across all levels vs CR of creature...

... but this one little minor thing was still bugging me, and in my eyes it's a stable trademark of Aenea... I'm sure can fix it too!... .. possibly just a case of re-instating the bonus xp/ meshing it with the new system.... I used to think that bonus xp worked in the creature's on death, and it would refference the "old" table and calculate from there.. ... well as that table is no longer in use, it has nothing to refference... .. (likely to be alot more involved then that though, I know I like to look at the simpler picture)..

Of course I'm guessing here, but it's how I figure it'd work (worked)...
You wait and I'm sure we'll all start seeing those wonderful yellow lines,
Monster Slain :Bonus XP Gained!
Experience gained 100000000
(well I wish I saw that one!).....

RustyDios wrote:I wasn't going to mention that Rayven.. ...

Sorry , hehe, I couldn't help it.

It'll be put back in, in the near future. Just something I forgot from the old system when writing the new one (and I did end up re-writing most of Scarface's script work on this one).