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Post by DPLincoln on Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:42 pm

I was fighting the dracolich today which has a 42/37/32/27/22 attack bonus. Based on several fights and the logs, he needs a 18/20/20/20/20 to hit me with a 60 armor class and 40 Dex (with bonuses... have 53 tumble atm as well).

Now, at first glance this is rocking! What are the odds he rolls a 20 every time? Often enough that I have to use 2 full heal potions a fight. In fact, as you fight him and he heals himself, his ability to hit increases.

Attacks before first heal at Badly Wounded = never hit me
Attacks between first and second heal at Badly Wounded = maybe 1 time
between second and third = 3-7 times
between third and 4th = usually a string of 3 in a row twice in this phase at 24-60 each in physical damage
between 4th and death = keep heal potion handy...maybe 2. He's a machine and even his 5th attack at 22 he rolls a 20.

In essence, as he gets weaker, his rolls get better so that in the end, it is not impossible for him to see an 18-20/20/20/20/20.

All things considered, this does not make sense to me. I'm tired right now so I'm missing something for sure, but perhaps one of those more educated in this could offer some assistance at explanation.

P.S. I have been as high as 62 AC with the same results.
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Post by daveyeisley on Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:09 pm

Cloak of Displacement, or some other method of gaining concealment. Half of his attacks will auto-miss. Watch out for his dispels, but he usually wont melee until he is out of spells anyhow.

More attacks per round if possible, to disrupt his heals if you hit hard enough. Haste potions are one option, dual-wielding bludgeoning weapons it also one way (though without the feats the AB penalty is tough, but there are items to help with that - gloves of balanced hands).

Mace of Disruption sold in Macedone. He will most likely roll a 1 before he exhausts all his heals.
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Post by MannyJabrielle on Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:57 pm

Spells and/or abilities to prevent his spell casting are good too.

For bards, mundane melody can be a great asset, as is the silence spell.

An idea too I never got around to testing out.... the rock armor spell (forget the exact name). For arcane casters, it grants the +5 or +6 armor AC bonus, but also incurs a HUGE arcane spell failure penalty. I am not certain the spell applies the failure based on the caster's class or the target's class... if it's based on caster class though and you are a wizard or a sorcerer, it would grant the dracolich more AC, BUT, gimp it's spell casting.

Taunt is also good for disrupting spell casting, although it takes a hefty investment to successfully taunt a dracolich.

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Post by Ramana Jala on Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:48 am

For my own go at him, I've picked up the Mace of Disruption, and a smaller offhand mace, to dual-wield Bludgeoning. In the process of upgrading them a bit, +5 enhancements and add Acid at least.

But I'm thinking Deadly Holy Traps, if I can get a summons or a buddy to keep the Dracolich off of me long enough to deploy them.

And I always have a Black Blade in my emergency back pocket, although that didn't seem to do much against the other dracolich I encountered a couple days ago. Probably only to distract him while I decide whether to run. Unfortunately I don't think I can use it to distract him while laying traps, that's probably a break in the concentration.

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Post by DPLincoln on Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:40 am

I found that I can alternate one ring and maintain good defense so I put on a /30 cold resist. For some reason, took less damage than before. Silly I know but whatever works. I just stand toe-to-toe with him and work it out. I picked up my 6 silvery bones from him so I'm good now on the upgrade.
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Post by Angel of Death on Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:19 am

Hint to combat undeads. Holy water. Seriously, it may not do much damage, but in large amounts even a dracolich will fall. Wink

My personal strategy with my Knight of Dalix though, is to face the dracolich head-on and cast a Silvania's nova of life spell. That takes care of pretty much any undead he faces. Razz
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Post by Ramana Jala on Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:53 pm

Well, if the Silvania's Nova of Life sapping your own hp is enough to kill the dracolich outright, otherwise you'll be standing stunned while he's pissed to stomp you, eh. So... positive damage equal to 3 times 90% my ranger/rogue's hp... HP are presently 306, so 826 positive damage seems pretty impressive. NWN Wikia says typical HP for a Dracolich are 590, so if ours takes all that positive damage unresisted, that would indeed be swell!

And I'll remember the cold res ring too!

Thanks for all the tips, everyone!
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Post by RayvenNightkind on Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:03 pm

They will on occasion resist Nova of Life, so be ready to chug that full heal right quick. It's happened to Sir Ray a few times and he can pull up to around 1605 points of dmg on it when it hits, ie, gets past their spell resistance , he uses that spell quite a bit Wink
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Post by Ramana Jala on Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:43 am

Well, then perhaps one should throw a dispel first, like Mordenkainen's, as Manny suggested, to have a better chance of getting Nova of Life through.

I haven't found any place that sells Nova of Life, so my scrolls of it will be quite limited (presently I have only 1). And I have two different dracoliches to kill, lol.

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Post by Elhanan on Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:55 am

Nova may not be for the laggy Player; have to hit that Heal potion quickly, or trouble awaits. And I also suggest placibg them on a seperate Quick-Bar to avoid saying 'Oooops!' as often as this Ancient One.
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Post by Angel of Death on Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:07 am

Well, yeah, as Ray and Elhanan said, you need to be ready to gulp down a potion of heal really quickly afterward. But I have as of yet to see a dracolich resist my spell. Smile Just in case though, I always buff up with everything I got beforehand; so if the chance does appear that the dracolich resists the Nova of Life, I've a better defense while stunned. ^^;

Oh, if your surrounded by lots of undeads. It can cause some lag to cast said spell. Be wary. It's like casting a hellball into the midst of an legion of orcs. >.>

Quick Edit: The drinking of the potion of heal is of course after the stun effect has worn off. Celestin is level 40 though, with a decent AC when buffed up so he does has a good defense against a dracolich. Maybe other PCs may get in trouble when using my personal strategy which has developed around his concept. Smile

When I go up against dracoliches with my long distance Arcane Archer/Illusionist Wizard Angelique, she stands back shooting his boney carcass full of arrows until he falls. Razz

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Last edited by Angel of Death on Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Ramana Jala on Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:10 am

I didn't think you could use a potion while stunned from that casting. But you've done it, eh.

Is that generally true in Aenea, that you can use a potion while stunned, dazed, feared, or otherwise mentally-incapacitated?

(I might be thinking of my other PW where I think that being dazed or feared made one incapable of using scrolls or potions.)

If you can take a potion, can it be anything, like mind blank?



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Post by Elhanan on Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:03 pm

To be honest, after a few mishaps I have not used Nova in ages; simply kinda remember that there is a potion form of this spell, too. This is the reason I place the icons on seperate Quick-Bars, I believe.

Of course, it has been a while since playing my Mages, and I may be thinking of another like spell.
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Post by RayvenNightkind on Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:20 pm

Ramana Jala wrote:I didn't think you could use a potion while stunned from that casting.

You can't use the potions while stunned, my bad, just meant have some quick slotted to pop fast as soon as the daze wears off Embarassed , if ya don't get squished in the mean time. Sometimes ya get lucky Twisted Evil
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Post by Angel of Death on Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:37 pm

RayvenNightkind wrote:
Ramana Jala wrote:I didn't think you could use a potion while stunned from that casting.

You can't use the potions while stunned, my bad, just meant have some quick slotted to pop fast as soon as the daze wears off Embarassed , if ya don't get squished in the mean time. Sometimes ya get lucky Twisted Evil

^Yeah, that's what I meant too. Sorry for the confusion. Embarassed
Edited my post above to reflect that. ^^;
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Post by Eric of Atrophy on Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:35 pm

I've found that standing a wee bit back and making healthy use of Melf's Acid Arrow and Acid Fog/Cloud/Storm/Whatever does the trick for me. Just have to remember not to walk into the Acid Cloud when it's still going ...
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Post by Ramana Jala on Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:18 pm

Standing back is definitely preferred, with such a super enemy. Rogues and Wizards both agree, whenever you can damage something without putting your own fragile body on the front line, the better. *nod nod* For those of the "cheater" philosophy, melee should be the last resort for when all that doesn't quite do it, and hopefully just to administer the coup de grace.

lol!

So... stocking up on holy water, acid thingeys of all types, making deadly holy traps, and wonder if those "dragon egg" bombs sold by a certain alchemist might be lovely, too....

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Post by daveyeisley on Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:35 pm

Alchemist's Bracers (not easy to find) are a boon to any adventurer, and the bane of Vorshlag.

Nothing says loving like an infinite barrage of acid flasks.
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Post by Ramana Jala on Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:49 pm

Oh, oh! I think I might actually have a set of those! *runs off gleefully to check*

And then there's deadly acid traps along with the holy, if I get the time-space to set them...
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Post by Maeglin Dubh on Mon May 21, 2012 10:14 pm

That's how the Militia did work.
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Post by evilkittenofdoom on Mon May 21, 2012 10:26 pm

If you refer to my post here you might also get a bit of inspiration. That was written after killing several of them at level 10-15 on that cleric.

In general, the Nova of Life works well if you have a lot of HP. If you are a cleric, there is a simple(r) combo that I've found to be similarly useful and a bit less risky.

Spoiler:
First prepare a few castings of the Spiritual Weapon spell. It is unkillable and will provide you with your decoy while you do the remainder of this. Once the dracolich is attacking the weapon, WALK, do NOT run or you will invoke attacks of opportunity, behind him and then cast heal. He cannot turn 180 degrees to perform an attack of opportunity, and thus as long as you make the touch attack (relatively easy) and pierce his Spell Resistance, he will be dropped to 10 Hit Points. After that, if you're lucky, a single Cure Critical Wounds will kill him. If he heals before you can get that off, you can always repeat the process a few more times until he dies.
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Post by Ramana Jala on Tue May 22, 2012 8:32 am

So, Heal for an undead is like Nova without the detriments! (Yeah, better for a lower-HP PC like my ranger/rogue.) How cool is that!

And great info in your thread, Evil Kitten, thanks for the reference!

With all these infos and my improved maces (and think I might have some bludgeoning arrows too, have to check), I think I'm about ready for my first attempt at Vorshlag, and at another dracolich in an undisclosed location.

Thanks a bunch!
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Post by Maeglin Dubh on Tue May 22, 2012 8:52 am

If that fails, Derik and Derfel are both pretty heavy-duty buffmasters (we prefer the term 'force multipliers') and can readily hang around to improve your performance and laugh if you die.
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Post by Ramana Jala on Tue May 22, 2012 9:40 am

Maeglin Dubh wrote:If that fails, Derik and Derfel are both pretty heavy-duty buffmasters (we prefer the term 'force multipliers') and can readily hang around to improve your performance and laugh if you die.
Oh, I love PC meatshields henchmen! Companions to keep the target busy while I set those Deadly Acid and Holy traps. Thanks, I'll keep that in mind!

lol!
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Post by Maeglin Dubh on Tue May 22, 2012 9:55 am

Oh, no. We just buff you and then sit and watch.

If we took part in the fight, there wouldn't be much for you to do. We once took a guy into the Orc General with Kasigi and Noric (the quintessential Beuttlerian Hit Squad) and combat took about 3-4 rounds. It was short, nasty, and brutal, and I think the player in question had been expecting more of a struggle from such a big boss.
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Post by Ramana Jala on Tue May 22, 2012 10:03 am

Oh. Don't need fighters, though, just decoys with a bit of endurance. Guess I'll use some hapless animals, then.
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Post by Elhanan on Tue May 22, 2012 11:00 am

In olden days, one could get a lot of milage from a ghostly food locker or like incantation as a temp obstacle. Place in a doorway, and occasionally the Boss would halt; simply do not bet your virtual life on it....
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Post by Angel of Death on Tue May 22, 2012 11:13 am

Elhanan wrote:In olden days, one could get a lot of milage from a ghostly food locker or like incantation as a temp obstacle. Place in a doorway, and occasionally the Boss would halt; simply do not bet your virtual life on it....

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Post by Ramana Jala on Tue May 22, 2012 2:54 pm

From what I remember of my short initial visit to Vorshlag's area, the unfortunate thing is that it's totally open and relatively small, and he can see you the moment you come into it. Thus no opportunity to find a narrowing to block, as he'll just come around the other way. Nor any place to be unseen for long enough to trap his pathway.

Thus if one wants to use traps, there is a need for a summons to keep him busy for a couple of minutes, like the most durable independent weapon, animal, or elemental that one can muster. Evil Kitten suggested Spiritual Weapon above, which if it's not subject to a Concentration check like Black Blade, might do it. Being as I do believe that setting traps would interrupt the Black Blade spell that my rogue casts from a scroll, as doing anything but standing still and watching has been shown to potentially end it. Otherwise I'd probably try an elder earth elemental to keep him busy for a bit.

The keyword to any such decoy is durability against the dracolich, because to set up the appropriate number of type of traps could take as long as a full minute, and I'd prefer to have at least two minutes to set up a whole lot of more of them than I'd think I should need.
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Post by evilkittenofdoom on Tue May 22, 2012 3:09 pm

It is not subject to a Concentration check, however a scroll will have a duration of 3-5 round if I'm not mistaken. A naturally cast spell (optimally extended) is your best bet when possible.
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Post by Elhanan on Tue May 22, 2012 3:19 pm

Ramana Jala wrote:From what I remember of my short initial visit to Vorshlag's area, the unfortunate thing is that it's totally open and relatively small, and he can see you the moment you come into it. Thus no opportunity to find a narrowing to block, as he'll just come around the other way. Nor any place to be unseen for long enough to trap his pathway.

Thus if one wants to use traps, there is a need for a summons to keep him busy for a couple of minutes, like the most durable independent weapon, animal, or elemental that one can muster. Evil Kitten suggested Spiritual Weapon above, which if it's not subject to a Concentration check like Black Blade, might do it. Being as I do believe that setting traps would interrupt the Black Blade spell that my rogue casts from a scroll, as doing anything but standing still and watching has been shown to potentially end it. Otherwise I'd probably try an elder earth elemental to keep him busy for a bit.

The keyword to any such decoy is durability against the dracolich, because to set up the appropriate number of type of traps could take as long as a full minute, and I'd prefer to have at least two minutes to set up a whole lot of more of them than I'd think I should need.

Sorry; the summoned barriers were for other, more Orcish bosses.

For V, I simply hang back on one of the bridges to whittle him down, with ranged and if I have melee also, them move in for the kill.
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Post by Ramana Jala on Wed May 23, 2012 8:25 am

From my short initial visit I hadn't noticed bridges or any other avenues off of his main square. Maybe he was blocking my view. I should take another reconnaissance, as some perch for me that he couldn't traverse would be great for ranged, even one I could Transference to. Thanks!
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Post by Elhanan on Wed May 23, 2012 9:05 am

Ramana Jala wrote:From my short initial visit I hadn't noticed bridges or any other avenues off of his main square. Maybe he was blocking my view. I should take another reconnaissance, as some perch for me that he couldn't traverse would be great for ranged, even one I could Transference to. Thanks!

There is the bridge in which you enter the room, and a partial one parallel to it; either makes a decent roost. IMO. However, archery can take a very long time unless you can deal some decent damage, so bring lunch....
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Post by daveyeisley on Wed May 23, 2012 9:19 am

Alternatively, a PC with many scrolls and traps might wish to restrict our friend Vorshlag's mobility with 3 or 4 Barriers of Force in a triangle or square pattern.

The trick to this is placing the walls, so take into account that the wall will always appear perpendicular (at a 90 degree angle) to your PC's position.

These Barriers can be cast from the safety of Greater Sanctuary.

Once Vorshy is walled in, you can take your leisure to set traps. Just try to keep a spell absorption effect up (Ioun or scrolls).
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Post by Ramana Jala on Wed May 23, 2012 11:43 am

I didn't remember an entry bridge being in the same area, thought I entered his presence via a transition into his main square, which was after crossing bridges in another area. Hm. I'll definitely have to look again.

And I was wondering about those Barriers being durable enough against such a powerful foe, hadn't used them before but I do have a collection of those scrolls. And can be cast from GS, awesome! Didn't know that GS would be at all useful against True Seeing. This may be the best yet for giving enough time to set the whole area with traps. Thanks a bunch!

bounce
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Post by daveyeisley on Wed May 23, 2012 12:35 pm

True seeing will allow an enemy to see that you are present, however, due to your ethereal nature, they cannot properly target you with attacks and spells.

They *can* still blanket an area with spells like Storm of Vengeance or Self-Sacrifice (though that would be a bit counterproductive heh).

As long as you keep a spell defense up (or multiple defenses, I personally am a fan of Energy Buffer and Greater Spell Mantle), you shouldn't be in much of any danger while placing your walls and traps.

As for the durability aspect, barriers of force are impervious to physical damage and Vorshlag lacks the spells to destroy them (Disintegrate and Mordenkainen's Disjunction).
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Post by Ramana Jala on Thu May 24, 2012 8:44 am

Excellent. Thanks again for the benefit of your wealth of knowledge, Dave.

(And P.S., I'm glad that dragons can't hop to inaccessible places, or hover, like they should naturally be able to, lol.)
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Post by Ramana Jala on Sun May 27, 2012 9:50 am

Well, I finally got a few minutes of playtime to go visit Vorshlag. I was intending to just do a better reconnaissance, and hadn't intended to necessarily fight him at that time. I did find that yes indeed the bridges are in the same area as he is.

So, I walked up to find him, saw him, moved back away, then wondered how much damage I could do with my bow from the bridge. So I came just close enough again to target him, and barraged him with a pack of elementally-augmented arrows. I was surprised that he didn't even seem to be able to see me at the range I was at, as he didn't make any attempt to move closer to my bridgehead, nor did he try to throw any spells at me. After not even half a pack of arrows, only the Acid and Sonic augments seeming to do any damage, he fell.

Thus my first conquest of Vorshlag was rather anti-climactic. I'm probably one to overestimate enemies and underestimate myself, and even inadvertently level beyond them being truly difficult before I try to solo them. But I'll try other tactics on his reconstituted self soon, barriers and traps, and maybe even melee. I know that my character is somewhat delicate in melee (especially with a True Seeing enemy), so that will surely be when she'll have to carefully buff up. Also, I found that there are narrowings on his area that will be useful to place barriers at, and it's possible I could even transference out of his sight range to a back corner to quickly set up a barrier.

So, I'll practice on him for a bit, then go pay that other dracolich a visit.... bounce
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