[Build Challenge]

by **daveyeisley** Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:53 pm

So, utilizing the following criteria, describe a build you are interested in. My challenge will be to create a build that can satisfy those criteria.

Combat (choose one primary and one secondary): Melee, Ranged, Spells.

Specialty (choose 2 primary and 2 secondary): Stealth, Absorbing Damage, Dealing Damage, Avoiding Damage, Healing, Traps, Boosting Allies, Weakening Enemies.

Choose any one required class, base class or prestige class. The other two class slots will be up to me to utilize to meet the criteria.

Optionally, choose 1 or 2 required feats that the build must include. I may not be able to satisfy this in every case based on the other criteria, but it may make things more interesting and challenging.

Feel free to include a 'flavor' description of the concept you want, such as 'Holy Warrior/Scout' for example, and elaborate more on the vision if you choose.

by **RustyDios** Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:57 pm

Combat: Melee
Speciality> Primary: Dealing Damage, Boosting Allies
Speciality> Secondary: Avoiding damage, Absorbing damage
Class: Dragonsoul (or just normal RDD)

Feats; Improved Whirlwind attack, Fast Healing

Flavour;
An ex-orc general that was/is the strongest any being can be in Aenea (prior to Lady Shea's magical augmentations). Great with a two-handed "custom orcish" axe and can dish out as much damage as a two-weapon wielder... Really focused on high STR but low ability scores in everything else. Would love some UMD ranks. Primary role in any party is a front line tank.

// In short, your concept on what would be best for T'setnoc when I get around to re-incarnating him!

by **daveyeisley** Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:34 pm

RustyDios wrote:Combat: Melee
Speciality> Primary: Dealing Damage, Boosting Allies
Speciality> Secondary: Avoiding damage, Absorbing damage
Class: Dragonsoul (or just normal RDD)

Feats; Improved Whirlwind attack, Fast Healing

Flavour;
An ex-orc general that was/is the strongest any being can be in Aenea (prior to Lady Shea's magical augmentations). Great with a two-handed "custom orcish" axe and can dish out as much damage as a two-weapon wielder... Really focused on high STR but low ability scores in everything else. Would love some UMD ranks. Primary role in any party is a front line tank.

// In short, your concept on what would be best for T'setnoc when I get around to re-incarnating him!

Initial problem:

- the strongest any being can be in Aenea (prior to Lady Shea's magical augmentations).

- Feats; Improved Whirlwind attack, Fast Healing

These requirements cause ability stat conflicts that can only be resolved with Lady Shea buys.

Int must be 13 base. Dex must be 23 base. Con must be 25 base. All three of these goals must be reached without utilizing anything that could otherwise be spent to increase Str.

Thus, we are limited to character creation, race ability modifiers, subrace ability modifiers, Dragonsoul ability modifiers, and tomes.

Because STR is first priority, we are forced to select Red Dragonsoul or RDD for class, and Bestial Half-Orc for race.

Stat.........Base.......After Racial Mod.....After Subrace Mod.....After Dragonsoul.....After plus 5 Tome

STR............18..................20...........................24..........................32..........................37

DEX............14..................14...........................14..........................14..........................19

CON............14..................14...........................18..........................20..........................25

INT..............10..................8.............................4............................6...........................11

As you can see, we end up 4 points shy of the DEX needed for Improved Whirlwind, and also 2 points of INT shy of the requirement for Expertise (which is needed for Whirlwind Attack and thus Improved Whirlwind).

No matter how we shift the character creation points around, we still experience a shortfall of 6 points.

Lady Shea purchases could potentially solve this... but it also requires plus 5 tomes in 4 different stats.

I apologize, but unless you can provide some means of hitting these goals, I must insist this is impossible.

by **RustyDios** Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:51 pm

... You did say it was a build challenge no?
And yeah, no matter how I try to cram it all in for a rebuild, I can't either...

Thanks for looking into it though with your knowledge and expertise ....
Forget this and move along....

by **A_Vagabond** Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:05 pm

Why improved WW? That's the real sticker, I think. If you drop that, the rest should be feasible, outside of "strongest possible."

I'd go with White Dragonsoul (+6 Str, +8 Con), starting con 11 (+8+4) = 23 and +3 tome, which is very easy to find yields 26 con. Str will be 18 +2+4+6+3 tome = 33, easily gained, with 10 normal stat boosts yields 43, warhulk for 47, and Great Str VII for 54. Realistically you'll only lose 2 Str points with White DS, but you'll get fast healing.
Now, for int, start with base 15, becoming 13 with half-Orc. Pick expertise as your first feat, which you get before subrace penalties. Then, the -4 doesn't matter, since that's the only feat you need int for, final int will be 9 without a tome.

If you start with dex 18 and manage a +5 dex tome, you could have 23; I don't think there are enough points to do so, however. It's 16 points for a base 18, so you can't start with 18 Str and dex. 15 int is 8, 11 con is only 3, that's 27, 3 left. Drop Str to 17, 6 buy grants only 14 starting dex, enough for regular WW, and you'll end up 3 points shy of the max possible Str.

If you're willing to concede 3 Str points off max and improved WW, you can achieve the rest.

by **RustyDios** Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:00 am

Hmm.. good plan.. and something to look into.... although for the particular PC I have in mind I wont be able to pick the expertise as first feat. Maybe another time. What would your level-by-level plan for this build go? Because this is something I'd look into with a future PC.

by **Lyme_gg** Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:17 am

Combat: Melee
Speciality> Primary: High HP, Elemental resists/Immunities
Speciality> Secondary: magic/fire damage
Class: Dragonsoul

Heya, I had written up a dragonsoul/firestarter once. lost the build though. curious to see what you would come up with a highest possible con bonus for this type o build. push it to the extreme!

by **daveyeisley** Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:04 am

RustyDios wrote: ... You did say it was a build challenge no?
And yeah, no matter how I try to cram it all in for a rebuild, I can't either...

Thanks for looking into it though with your knowledge and expertise ....
Forget this and move along....

Challenge and impossible are mutually exclusive, sir Razz

by **daveyeisley** Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:07 am

A_Vagabond wrote:Why improved WW? That's the real sticker, I think. If you drop that, the rest should be feasible, outside of "strongest possible."

I'd go with White Dragonsoul (+6 Str, +8 Con), starting con 11 (+8+4) = 23 and +3 tome, which is very easy to find yields 26 con. Str will be 18 +2+4+6+3 tome = 33, easily gained, with 10 normal stat boosts yields 43, warhulk for 47, and Great Str VII for 54. Realistically you'll only lose 2 Str points with White DS, but you'll get fast healing.
Now, for int, start with base 15, becoming 13 with half-Orc. Pick expertise as your first feat, which you get before subrace penalties. Then, the -4 doesn't matter, since that's the only feat you need int for, final int will be 9 without a tome.

If you start with dex 18 and manage a +5 dex tome, you could have 23; I don't think there are enough points to do so, however. It's 16 points for a base 18, so you can't start with 18 Str and dex. 15 int is 8, 11 con is only 3, that's 27, 3 left. Drop Str to 17, 6 buy grants only 14 starting dex, enough for regular WW, and you'll end up 3 points shy of the max possible Str.

If you're willing to concede 3 Str points off max and improved WW, you can achieve the rest.

Correct, Imp. WW combined with highest STR possible was the main issue.

If you rely on the tome for the INT, you can still pull off regular WW and Highest STR possible, you will just need to re-level after getting all the base stats needed, and you would not need to drop any STR.

by **Elhanan** Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:25 pm

Aenea also has another criteria: Teleportation magics.

I know I have quit a couple of builds here because I failed to add some UMD, Arcane lore, etc into the mix. Reason I mention this; was working on a familiar design last night when I realized I have played it before, and wondered aloud, "Why did I remove that one?".

So my challenge is this:

Cleric of Mystara; at least 30th that utilizes Spells and ranged, and longingly would like to add Ironheart as the rest. But if done, I see no way to use Teleport magic.

Thanks for any help!

by **Angel of Death** Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:50 pm

@Elhanan: Custom voucher item with teleport 5 use/day? Wink

by **Elhanan** Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:15 pm

Angel of Death wrote:@Elhanan: Custom voucher item with teleport 5 use/day?

True; but I am not certain if 5/day is adequate, and this does not cover Transference or other often used like magics.

And NO! That Aenean helm of unlimited Telport is not an answer.... *still grumbles of con men*

by **Angel of Death** Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:13 pm

Elhanan wrote:
Angel of Death wrote:@Elhanan: Custom voucher item with teleport 5 use/day?

True; but I am not certain if 5/day is adequate, and this does not cover Transference or other often used like magics.

And NO! That Aenean helm of unlimited Telport is not an answer.... *still grumbles of con men*

If you need any more, just stock up on sleep potions and wander off to find a safe place to rest once the teleportation uses has been expended? Smile

It's what I'm going to do with Celestin once he gets his custom item. ^^

Unsure just how many times you're needed to teleport off to in a rush, right and quick anyway...

And yes, that old man is tricky. Razz

Anyway, to stay on topic!

Combat (choose one primary and one secondary): Melee first, Spells secondary (if needed--likely just for buffs and healing).

Specialty (choose 2 primary and 2 secondary): Shapeshifting and dealing damage, for primary specialty. Secondary would be boosting allies/one self as well as avoiding damage.

Choose any one required class, base class or prestige class: Shifter, as many shapes as possible.

Optionally, choose 1 or 2 required feats that the build must include: Clean slate, think there's enough restrictions above. Smile

Flavour:

Spoiler:

by **A_Vagabond** Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:52 pm

Helms of teleportation can be crafted.

by **A_Vagabond** Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:20 pm

Angel of Death wrote:
Anyway, to stay on topic!

Combat (choose one primary and one secondary): Melee first, Spells secondary (if needed--likely just for buffs and healing).

Specialty (choose 2 primary and 2 secondary): Shapeshifting and dealing damage, for primary specialty. Secondary would be boosting allies/one self as well as avoiding damage.

Choose any one required class, base class or prestige class: Shifter, as many shapes as possible.

Optionally, choose 1 or 2 required feats that the build must include: Clean slate, think there's enough restrictions above.

Flavour:
Spoiler:

Human, TN? Is that necessary? You could do much better with some other choices there.

Shifter needs to finish >=17. Druid should be >=21. That's 38 levels. Take 2 monk. As much as I detest druid/monks, I've made one myself, and for the purposes of this thread, the power granted is worth the price of the cheese. This will net you Monk AC bonus, unarmed attack progression while shifted, Druid Epic spellcasting (assuming it works for your PC), and the opportunity for all of the shapeshifting spells, including the Aenean additions. Wisdom must be 30 for Dragon form, but in Aenea you can get that fairly easily, especially if you choose to drop human for something like Bright Gnome. You can start with a Wis = 22 that way, and have 27 by level 20, before tomes. Take the monk levels in epic to preserve your AB (although it'll make leveling a chore) and start with Druid 12/Shifter 8. I would take monk early and late in epics (second monk level would be char level 37-39 to maximize tumble, discipline, and H/MS). The other levels will need to be determined to get all of the shifter epic feats (Undead, Outsider, Construct, Dragon). You'll get the Druid wildshape and Elder Elementals, too, as well as everything through the 9th level Shapeshift spell. Shifter 17 grants unlimited non-epic shifter forms, in their improved levels, which is quite good. Bright gnome will also give you a great SR in all forms. If you insist on human, I'd consider demonspawn for the +2 wisdom. You'll be down +2 from bright gnome, but can keep human, which will reduce the XP penalty, and be more in keeping with your concept. You can RP that, in desperation to escape his demonic past, he strives to take on the form of anything else, to distance himself from the shame he sees every time he looks in a mirror...

Melee will be through shifted forms, so no worries there. Ranged attacks (if desired) could be handled with Zen archery, although keep in mind that you won't be able to get martial weapons, so you'll be limited to the crossbow or sling, and eventually shurikens. Druid 21 will also have access to all the levels of druid spells, and the high wisdom will grant lots of bonus slots without need for items. Taking Druid as your last level will allow you to maximize spellcraft, which will be critical for Aenean Epic spells, and you'll get 6 casts/rest, which isn't at all shabby.

For subclass, I usually favor Warhulk to help with AB (which can be somewhat low with a shifter), but Druids and high wisdom scream Master of Menagerie, if you want to go there.

Feats would be to improve combat (imp crit unarmed works shifted, others don't seem to, epic prowess is good, too), perhaps the epic caster feat (so you may need to take druid 21 earlier, and then take druid 22 and only one late monk level). Take the shifter feats as bonuses if possible.

That help?

by **Elhanan** Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:27 am

Can Martial weapons be taken on the Monk lvl? Not really needed as it is the last choice, but I prefer longbows almost every time.

Also, alignment will be problematic unless changed to L/N, I believe.

by **Angel of Death** Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:31 am

@A_Vagabond:
"Human, TN? Is that necessary? You could do much better with some other choices there."

Well it's from the initial character concept, yes. I copy/pasted parts of my description for a nwn2 character I had been toying with converting to Aenea. I might change it some...not sure yet really. If I had to give my opinion of it now, the race would be the important of the two - I am pretty indifferent about the alignment though as long it's some kind of "neutral ish" one. Smile

It's all part of the challenge, right? Dave asked for one, so I thought I would give him one. Cool

As far as your build, it'll certainly be taken into consideration when I should create him, and I appreciate the time you have taken to think of it. Smile

by **A_Vagabond** Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:40 am

Elhanan wrote:Can Martial weapons be taken on the Monk lvl? Not really needed as it is the last choice, but I prefer longbows almost every time.

Also, alignment will be problematic unless changed to L/N, I believe.

No. You need simple weapons to qualify for martial, and neither Druid nor monk get that.

I specifically put "TN" in my initial statement because both the race and alignment were at issue ;-) LN would be required, yep.

by **Elhanan** Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:29 am

Then take Simple weapons, too! Smile

Use Ftr lvls instead of Monk, and focus on Unarmed attack Feats. I advise 4-6 lvls of Ftr; placing the remainder into either Spell (ie; more Druid) or Shape (ie; more Shifter) focus as desired. However, if ranged is not to be utilized much, then skip Zen Archery as it does not appear to help many forms at all (eg; Manticore perhaps?).

by **daveyeisley** Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:48 pm

Angel of Death wrote:
Combat (choose one primary and one secondary): Melee first, Spells secondary (if needed--likely just for buffs and healing).

Specialty (choose 2 primary and 2 secondary): Shapeshifting and dealing damage, for primary specialty. Secondary would be boosting allies/one self as well as avoiding damage.

Choose any one required class, base class or prestige class: Shifter, as many shapes as possible.

Optionally, choose 1 or 2 required feats that the build must include: Clean slate, think there's enough restrictions above.

Flavour:
Spoiler:

I have to agree with vagabond, that it makes sense to go Lawful Neutral for the Monk class.

I have the info for both Lyme_gg and yourself, and I will crunch these over the next couple weeks. I am at the early outline stage currently.

by **Angel of Death** Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:38 pm

I can see the advantage of it, yes. Alignment, for me, isn't all too important aspect on this character since it's not a 'set-in-stone' concept at all...

I'm very curious though what you'll come up with, and will look forward to see the resulting sheet! Very Happy

by **RustyDios** Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:39 pm

Elhanan wrote:Can Martial weapons be taken on the Monk lvl? Not really needed as it is the last choice, but I prefer longbows almost every time.

Also, alignment will be problematic unless changed to L/N, I believe.

Why not try for a demon spawn Elf... the elf gets bonus profs with longsword, rapier, shortbow and longbow....and the demon spawn grants that wisdom bonus, (and add in zen archery).... which is great when considering a druid build can't select any weapon proficiencies... wiki elf and demonspawn and wiki druid

Personally... My Druid/(Shifter) build went for Bright Gnome and has thus far mixed in some monk levels purely because of the wisdom affinity, high AC, high Speed, high spell DC, bonus slots, SR, monk immunites, Unarmed shifted attacks and everything monkish merges... so much just "works well together" in this build..
.... although I've found that shifting forms isn't really in my style of play! The build seems good, just not quite my cup of tea !

by **Endill** Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:16 am

Combat primary, secondary: Ranged, Melee

2 primary: Dealing Damage, Avoiding Damage
2 secondary: Healing, Boosting Allies

Druid

Zen Archery, Dragon Shape

Elf Demon Spawn, living his life channelling his chaos into the chaotic balance that is nature, devoting what ferocity and sanity he can towards serving andra.

Sorry if this challenge is so similar to the last. I am curious to see how a well educated response compares to the build I settled upon for my wild demonspawn elf andra devotee. *dragon shape and the wildshapes/elemental shapes are more for flavor and roleplay than actual combat usage*

by **A_Vagabond** Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:46 pm

Dragon shape for flavor? How about the Shapechange spell, then? I believe you can become a dragon -- albeit not as powerful as the Dragon Shape epic feat -- but the stat requirements are significantly lower, which means you can focus on other things.

What about a Druidic AA? You can either go dex or wis with Zen archery, but truth be told, unless you really need the Wis for Dragon Shape, dump it into dex, and take AA levels. You'll be able to get your AB very high, with arrows that'll penetrate most DR, and it's a great way to keep melee ranged damage high. Finesse a rapier, and you can fight decently in hand-to-hand, but your str will likely need a boost at that point... but if you're really pressed, shapechange does work well in hand-to-hand, especially if you're considering taking druid to epics. Druid 26 gets you unlimited elemental form, and access to Aenean epic spells. AA 13 will grant +7 to attack and damage on top of any bow or arrows you use, as well as 1:1 AB, so taking enough levels pre-epic grants 4 apr (5 with rapid shot), and keeps your combat skills on a par with the fighter classes. One level of an arcane class to top it off, your choice. It'll have to be pre-epic, so you can't really use it to "top off" skill points, unless you drop 1-2 levels of something else and take bard. One early for AA, one late for a skill dump. Under that circumstance, I'd lower a druid level, although 26 makes your buffs undispellable (only Mord's will kill them), 25 is still decent, and I wouldn't underestimate the value of a nice tumble dump at level 37-40. UMD could also be used, but that's of limited value as you'll already have divine and arcane caster levels.

by **Belarric** Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:11 am

Name: Ezio Alterra
Combat: Melee
Primary Speciality: Fast attacks
Secondary Speciality: evading damage
Class: Rogue/Fighter/ COT(Dalix)

Feats: Epic Dodge

Flavour:
Assassin Creed. Dextrous warrior, able to dual wield or use a blade and knife
In the books he has wrist bracer as a shield which is also a blade (I know unable to) and the blade is like a punch dagger
Rogue for UMD
Maybe use “custom notes” to enhance blades. Unsure yet

Basically: I am still unaware of a lot that can be done here. Still not done the main quest!
Your concept for a solo player due to my timezone and not yet used scales so can be rebuilt.

by **Endill** Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:26 am

A_Vagabond wrote:snip

I am considering pressing druid to 26, I think 25 is all that is actually needed for undispellable besides mord's, unless rolling a one is an autofailure. Bard/AA/Druid had crossed my mind, but I was sort of talked out of that. As I am playing the druid, I like the idea of a shield and darts over a bow. I had considered monk/druid/fighter for just bow, though. 26 druid, 6 monk, 8 fighter. snagging both ews longbow and ews unarmed strike, but that would require lawful neutral over true neutral. I'd like DS over using shapechange into dragon so that I can free up the spell slot or shapechange into something not so dragon. I toyed with the idea of even 26 druid, 4 monk, 10 shifter, and grabbing outsider shape on shifter 10 with an epic feat, but again, would require lawful neutral over true neutral. I am very interested to see what Dave's take is on the concept, I think I settled in on something, inspired by Bruce Li's latest discussed concept.

by **daveyeisley** Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:45 pm

Looks like I've got my work cut out for me lol.

All I ask is patience - I will crunch these out, but I don't want to just throw something together. I want to plan, build, test, and tweak. My time is somewhat limited, and I intend to squeeze playtime and DM time in as well.

by **Ramana Jala** Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:14 pm

I was going to insert my own inquiry for your opinion on maximizing my super dodgey Ramana, but I'll wait until your workload here has slacked off, Dave! Laughing

by **Belarric** Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:49 am

Thats ok Dave
Didnt expect an answer anyway as you are busy already
Whenever will do as Enzio is going slow at moment anyway Smile

by **A_Vagabond** Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:26 am

Endill wrote:
A_Vagabond wrote:snip
I am considering pressing druid to 26, I think 25 is all that is actually needed for undispellable besides mord's, unless rolling a one is an autofailure. Bard/AA/Druid had crossed my mind, but I was sort of talked out of that. As I am playing the druid, I like the idea of a shield and darts over a bow. I had considered monk/druid/fighter for just bow, though. 26 druid, 6 monk, 8 fighter. snagging both ews longbow and ews unarmed strike, but that would require lawful neutral over true neutral. I'd like DS over using shapechange into dragon so that I can free up the spell slot or shapechange into something not so dragon. I toyed with the idea of even 26 druid, 4 monk, 10 shifter, and grabbing outsider shape on shifter 10 with an epic feat, but again, would require lawful neutral over true neutral. I am very interested to see what Dave's take is on the concept, I think I settled in on something, inspired by Bruce Li's latest discussed concept.

I'm just putting it out here, but DS requires Wis 30 and an epic feat slot. Shapechange requires a 9th level spell slot (wis 19), and doesn't use a feat. There's a big difference there in a build. If you want DS for combat, great, I have it on my druid, and it's fun. But, if it's just for RP flavor and not combat, you could use those 10-11 stat points and epic feat for other things, and just put aside a 9th level spell slot. You can, on the fly, choose what form the spell takes, so you won't have to commit to dragon if you go the spell route, too.

If you're interested in darts, halflings get an AB bonus with darts. Just saying Smile

Outsider shape is fun to play with, but limited AB. Very limited. I was unhappy with my combat-oriented shifter--Dev Crit Scythe, and I couldn't hit anything worthwhile Sad

by **Endill** Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:23 am

A_Vagabond wrote:
Endill wrote:
A_Vagabond wrote:snip
snip

I'm just putting it out here, but DS requires Wis 30 and an epic feat slot. Shapechange requires a 9th level spell slot (wis 19), and doesn't use a feat. There's a big difference there in a build. If you want DS for combat, great, I have it on my druid, and it's fun. But, if it's just for RP flavor and not combat, you could use those 10-11 stat points and epic feat for other things, and just put aside a 9th level spell slot. You can, on the fly, choose what form the spell takes, so you won't have to commit to dragon if you go the spell route, too.

If you're interested in darts, halflings get an AB bonus with darts. Just saying

Outsider shape is fun to play with, but limited AB. Very limited. I was unhappy with my combat-oriented shifter--Dev Crit Scythe, and I couldn't hit anything worthwhile

Yeah, the primary/secondary split on roles is sort of even between the ranged combat and heal/support caster with offensive casting and melee combat being flavorish. 32ish wisdom is the minimum I am heading towards in the build, so DS seems a worthy feat for flavor using the spells for the support/heal role. I have settled in on a sling as the ranged weapon of choice because it has more options for enhancement than darts, although I had considered the halfling for a dexish druid ranged attack build. The shifter mix would not have been for combat, just for flavor. Although if the current build seems weak as I try to level, I will use my remaining relevel scale to go monk/druid/fighter ZA Longbow specialised...I am also definitely open to advice from the folks with the experience. If you'd like me to take it to PM I can bounce my idea of the current build so you can get an idea of what my concept is heading towards now and tell me where my flaws are, besides the obvious ab deficiency/ac deficiency, since it is a sort of generalised druid.

And Dungeon Master Mythgar/Dave/Crideas...no sweat on my build challenge. I am just interested to see what direction you end up taking it versus what direction I seem to have settled on, currently. Especially given your familiarity with the way Aenea works versus my brand spanking new only understanding modestly the mechanics of NWN and just learning the world...case in point: walking from the vale to calithia, not taking a boat...being able to handle finding the wanderer's item but only seeming to know the right combination to head to limbo! BUT! puzzles and learning experiences are great, so I am here to stay as long as I am welcome.

by **Elhanan** Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:40 am

Endill wrote:
A_Vagabond wrote:snip
I am considering pressing druid to 26, I think 25 is all that is actually needed for undispellable besides mord's, unless rolling a one is an autofailure. Bard/AA/Druid had crossed my mind, but I was sort of talked out of that. As I am playing the druid, I like the idea of a shield and darts over a bow. I had considered monk/druid/fighter for just bow, though. 26 druid, 6 monk, 8 fighter. snagging both ews longbow and ews unarmed strike, but that would require lawful neutral over true neutral. I'd like DS over using shapechange into dragon so that I can free up the spell slot or shapechange into something not so dragon. I toyed with the idea of even 26 druid, 4 monk, 10 shifter, and grabbing outsider shape on shifter 10 with an epic feat, but again, would require lawful neutral over true neutral. I am very interested to see what Dave's take is on the concept, I think I settled in on something, inspired by Bruce Li's latest discussed concept.

You could use Druid 26/ Ftr 6/ Rog 8 - The Druid lvls aid you in spells and Infinite Elem Shape, 4 pre-Epic Ftr lvls allows for an extra attack per rnd, and the Rogue will allow for heavy Tumble and UMD skill usage. This also gives you the option of metallic weapons and armor, or not. You may use the two Ftr Epic lvls for EWS on the ranged weapon of choice. And the DS may be gained easier with purchased WIS as it becomes available; maybe in Ascended play.

by **daveyeisley** Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:37 pm

Haven't forgotten about these... but to do them right is going to take me a while for each one, and I have had precious little time to play, let alone invest in builds or other aspects.

And then there's the whole DM thing - I am sure folks are waiting on item stuff, fixes, and the odd DM event....

by **Ramana Jala** Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:44 pm

We do so love those odd DM events.

Twisted Evil

by **Elhanan** Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:33 pm

And we have the oddest DM's, too.... *bazinga*

by **RustyDios** Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:02 am

RustyDios wrote:Combat: Melee
Speciality> Primary: Dealing Damage, Boosting Allies
Speciality> Secondary: Avoiding damage, Absorbing damage
Class: Dragonsoul (or just normal RDD)

Feats; Improved Whirlwind attack, Fast Healing

Flavour;
An ex-orc general that was/is the strongest any being can be in Aenea (prior to Lady Shea's magical augmentations). Great with a two-handed "custom orcish" axe and can dish out as much damage as a two-weapon wielder... Really focused on high STR but low ability scores in everything else. Would love some UMD ranks. Primary role in any party is a front line tank.

// In short, your concept on what would be best for T'setnoc when I get around to re-incarnating him!

Finally came up with something I like for this build/idea... it did mean dropping both the Imp WWA AND fast healing and it comes with the Lev1 limiting factors (it is a re-level plan after all)... just putting it out there to see if anyone thinks it can be "optimised" at all.... ...

Bard/RDD/Ftr with a fire theme:

So what do ye think ?

by **Angel of Death** Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:32 pm

Best Strategy to defeat T'setnoc: Throw a diversion at him, anything, anything at all will do; preferable something shiny and/or set on fire! He's short attension span and low intelligence makes it too easy...he's like a fierce, big kitten. Razz

In seriousness though; looks nice. Though don't take my word on it, as all my builds are strictly thematic. I'm no good at number crunching to get the best build ever made. Smile

...Manny is right about the Odd numbered STR score, though. That much I know...but given the theme was being the strongest warrior, ever, on Aenea. I think it suits him perfectly. =)

by **MannyJabrielle** Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:22 pm

How many shae strength buys have you gotten so far, and what tomes? What's your AC? And hat 41 skill points to spread, is that before or after the perform/tumble/spellcraft allocation?

A quick glance at what you got so far, you've got almost enough constitution for EDR, which would be very valuable, especially if your AC isn't super high.

Your strength also looks like it'll currently end at a final score of 53. 53 doesn't offer anything 52 doesn't except being able to carry more stuff.. which at that level of strength is a non-issue anyway with your carry capacity being somewhere around several tons Razz

If after all the possible shae buys and tomes it's still an odd number, I'd say drop one of the great strength feats for epic prowress for that extra AB.

by **RustyDios** Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:49 pm

MannyJabrielle wrote:How many shae strength buys have you gotten so far, and what tomes?

Currently (I Just checked in-game) +5 Str (from the Sunglory Gladiator Tournament!), +2Dex, +3Con, +2Int, +2Wis, +2Cha.... Plus War Hulk Str bonuses (+4?)... no Lady Shea stat buys...

MannyJabrielle wrote: What's your AC? And hat 41 skill points to spread, is that before or after the perform/tumble/spellcraft allocation?

Current AC is 10 +8 (3base/5bonus) Light Armor + 6 (2base/4bonus) Large Shield +5Amulet +4Cloak +4 Draconic = 37AC.... After the re-level plan I'll be switching to using a two-handed weapon primarily (with a +5AC)... ...
The 41 points are BEFORE the spread to tumble/perform etc....

MannyJabrielle wrote:
A quick glance at what you got so far, you've got almost enough constitution for EDR, which would be very valuable, especially if your AC isn't super high.

After the RDD Lv7 (with its +2 con boost) I'll have Con 21, so I will be able to maybe swap a GSx for EDR ... is a DR 3/- really worth it ?

MannyJabrielle wrote:
Your strength also looks like it'll currently end at a final score of 53. 53 doesn't offer anything 52 doesn't except being able to carry more stuff.. which at that level of strength is a non-issue anyway with your carry capacity being somewhere around several tons

If after all the possible shae buys and tomes it's still an odd number, I'd say drop one of the great strength feats for epic prowress for that extra AB.

Strength currently ends at a score of 62 in all build designs I've come up with ... it makes a very respectable 74 after +12Str items (a certain +8belt and +4bracers).. which adds oodles of damage and AB for melee... Lead Attack (with the weapon of choice, +5enh) turns out at approx 66 with 4att/rd (this is from the top of my head, might be remembering slightly wrong)... which should be enough to hit most everything non-uber-boss in Aenea... ....

by **MannyJabrielle** Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:29 pm

The EDR feats stack up to EDRIII for a total of -/9 reduction. Couple that with a dwarf wizard upgrade of -/10 to slash/poke/bash resists, and you got a total -/19 resistance to physical damages. With an AC of mid 30's, that's a huge benefit. It's a big benefit even when you got the 50 to 60 AC ranges. It would be something to consider I think.

For the AC, it looks like you got the required perform for a level 12 bardsong... so I'd consider tumble being pushed to 40 for another 4 AC. If we had enemies in aenea that used the relevant combat feats, I'd suggest bumping discipline up as well, particularly with a low AC. As there really aren't.... spellcraft to help with saves vs spells. You'd want your final spellcraft score (after ability modifiers/item bonuses) to be a multiple of 5.

Work on getting some DM upgrades.... swap out those +4 str bracers for +8 AC bracers, +5 to boots, weapon, amulet, and whatever item you want the deflection bonus on....

All in all it's a very solid build, and has the potential to take down nearly anything in Aenea Smile

by **RustyDios** Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:52 am

Yes I can see how the EDR would be of benefit but that also requires that I loose three epic feats that I've already settled on ?...

I was aiming for Bard Song Lv12 for the effects it gives for Hymm (the first fire damage introduced) and Refrain (5hp / rd - very respectable healing power, for a mainly str/damage build)...

I have 41 skill points total to spend... 15perform takes that to 26, 20tumble takes it to 6 remaining, 5spellcraft leaves me with one spare point... unless perform requires total ranks (not base ranks) upon which I could save a few.... I know the tumble/spellcraft need to be base ranks to get the AC/sv...

Currently the build has no Dwarf Upgrades that I can spot anywhere, everything but his axe is standard Aenea loot.... so there is ooodles of room for improvement in that respect... and as yet he's not even re-incarnated/ascended which would boost the abilites/skills even further..... ....

I'll work some EDRIII ideas in over the next day or so... and see if I find something I like...

by **Elhanan** Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:48 am

No build expert, but you may wish to consider Dragonsoul over RDD for the +5 Dodge bonus. Also, if you waited to add this class into 21-40, you could adj the other two classes for more BAB, I believe.

by **RustyDios** Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:18 am

Elhanan wrote:No build expert, but you may wish to consider Dragonsoul over RDD for the +5 Dodge bonus.

Good spot!!
Just looked into this and RDD do indeed gain +4 "other" AC by level 10 (which stacks with everything/anything)... the Red Dragonsoul gains a +5 "dodge" AC by level 10 (which stacks with other dodge bonuses upto the +20cap, and every other type too)... well according to the website...

However upon further inspection the Dragonsoul gets its AC bonus from "Draconic Luck" with +1 at 1st Level, +1 at 5th, +1 at 8th and then a +1 at 10th to a total of +5.... either I'm really bad at maths or that's actually +2 at 10th, or the total is still only +4?

Can anyone confirm this ?

Elhanan wrote:Also, if you waited to add {the RDD} class into 21-40, you could adj the other two classes for more BAB, I believe.

Yes this is a possibility but I think it comes at the expense of skill points. The RDD lv9 adds a +2Int which helps get more skill points per level, and the class already lacks skill points... So this is another point of debate, more BAB or more Skill points for things like tumble/spellcraft/UMD...

by **Elhanan** Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:12 pm

If you still make the total number of Lvls of Draconic PrC in Epic rather than pre-Epic, then you should not lose any Skill Pts; simply possibly boost BAB. However, Base Saves may be affected; might wish to see into that first.

by **MannyJabrielle** Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:38 pm

Ah, sorry for some reason read it as AFTER point spending... That single point can be tossed anywhere then. And looking at just 5 spellcraft... ditch it. You only get +1 saves, but that +1 could easily be nerfed (dark realm aura, curse song from enemy bards). If you don't put any points into it, as a trained skill, those same negative hits can't nerf your saves.

And I looked over your build again.... You can add EDR3 without sacrificing ANYTHING. You haven't allocated 3 bonus feats.

Fighter levels 12, 16 and 18 are bonus feat levels. You allocated the fighter level 14 bonus feat, but not those other three. There you go, EDR3 and everything else.

Also.... I noticed you took creature lore, and only mentioned the 8 required lore for RDD. With bardic lore, that's 20 before the int penalty. IMO creature lore is pointless without significant lore skill investment. I would swap that for lingering song. That would get you a total of 60 more rounds worth of bard song effect. Extra music would work too, but 3 would net you only +30 extra rounds worth of bardsong efffect.

by **MannyJabrielle** Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:22 pm

Hrmm, nevermind, looking at it again, you do have those feats used... or did you edit to add in more great strengths?

If only great strength was a bonus fighter feat...

by **RustyDios** Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:48 pm

12 > Overwhelming Critical (GreatAxe)
16 > Epic Weapon Focus (GreatAxe)
18 > Epic Weapon Specialization (GreatAxe)

All the standard epic feats are pumped into Great Strength feats... ...

Creature Lore is taken on a Ftr level, will Lingering Song be available ?
The edit that was done was to add in what/when the RDD ability increases are....

by **MannyJabrielle** Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:56 pm

Yes, a quick test build I did showed that lingering and extra music are available on fighter levels, just like the metamagic feats are, even though fighters arent' spellcasters.

by **Elhanan** Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:29 pm

Personally, I could never choose to lower INT to 4, as Skill Pts are far too important to me; perhaps Languages, too.

by **RustyDios** Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:44 pm

Awesome... think I'll be switching out the Creature Lore for Lingering Music then...
Also dump the 5 spellcraft... maybe put them towards tumble for an extra AC point ?

And the Int so low because, well, he's a big strong dumb orc... I actually have difficulty trying to RP his stupidly low Int so I tend to forget it!!... All languages can be learned through books eventually so I'm not too worried there... but the limited skill points is proving a new challenge to me Smile

Can anyone confirm the +4AC "Other" Draconic Armour RDD vs. +5AC "dodge" Draconic Luck Red Dragonsoul issue ? That extra AC point might be a bonus...

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