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Missing: One Hawk Helmet Empty Missing: One Hawk Helmet

Post by odbo255 on Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:38 pm

So Fren met up with her first rust monsters the other day and lost her signature hawk helmet.

Which merchant has these for sale? And yes, I'm aware of the irony of this question...

On a side note, which inventory slots can the rust monsters target? How can a player confirm which items are susceptible? Can you lose a custom item this way?
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Post by daveyeisley on Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:57 pm

The Amethyst Dragon made changes based on player feedback... Used to be they could destroy anything, which utterly sucked.

I will defer to The Amethyst Dragon on this, but I believe the script checks gold piece value now.
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Post by Elhanan on Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:57 pm

"Irony"; great pun! Twisted Evil
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Post by Ramana Jala on Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:58 am

The merchants at Mountainholm League of Adventurers have a good stock of helmets, check especially the priest/cleric one.

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Post by odbo255 on Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:21 am

Thanks Ramana, I will do so.
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Post by RustyDios on Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:26 pm

Yeah the rust monsters do check for gold piece value I believe, they can target anything that it is equipped including custom items....

However if you go to the alchemist in Watertown you can buy some special Anti-rust ointments that will protect your items from rust monster attacks. They have the drawback of decreasing your hide skill but in my opinion are really worth it (especially for custom items or heavy dwarf modded ones)....
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Post by odbo255 on Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:38 pm

RustyDios wrote:Yeah the rust monsters do check for gold piece value I believe, they can target anything that it is equipped including custom items....

However if you go to the alchemist in Watertown you can buy some special Anti-rust ointments that will protect your items from rust monster attacks. They have the drawback of decreasing your hide skill but in my opinion are really worth it (especially for custom items or heavy dwarf modded ones)....

What type of GP check is it? If an item exceeds XXX value the rust monster is unable to target it I assume? (And implied in Dave's previous post...)

Also to confirm, the RM can target *all* active inventory slots. Belt, boots, arrows, bolts, etc. the whole nine yards?

Last question, how can you determine if an item is invulnerable from a RM attack (before an attack is made of course). I noticed that Fren's "Ugly Stick" worked great on them and was immuine to the RM's attack by the messages in the combat window.
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Post by RustyDios on Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:09 pm

Well that is new to me !

AFAIK the only way to be immune to RM attack is the anti-rust ointments... I know The Amethyst Dragon has done a super ammount of work re-working the RM scripts, it is possible that since I last visited any that those improvements have gone live.

It would make sense that the RM can't target anything not deemed as metal... but the OLD coding couldn't determine what was or not, so just ate it regardless... and it also wasn't specific to slots either it ate boots belts cloaks..... it is highly possible that The Amethyst Dragon's NEW code only targets weapons, armours, shields, rings, amulets (they are the ones most likely to be metal right ?)......

I'm not sure to be honest.... wait for an answer from the almighty one..... Smile
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:53 am

Rust monster rough mechanics:

When rust monster is hit: if a metal weapon (based on base weapon type) hits rust monster, PC gets a Reflex save (vs. DC 20) or else weapon rusts away. Otherwise, only "plot" and "cursed" weapons are immune.

Rust monsters can also do an antenna attack: touch attack vs. PC, then item struck is decided upon (checks various equipment slots for a "metal" item, again decided by item base type), if metal item is struck, PC rolls a Reflex save...DC starts at 20, and goes down by 1 per 10,000 gp value of the item.

That one alchemist does sell a way to protect items from rust monsters.

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Post by odbo255 on Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:04 pm

The Amethyst Dragon wrote:When rust monster is hit: if a metal weapon (based on base weapon type) hits rust monster, PC gets a Reflex save (vs. DC 20) or else weapon rusts away. Otherwise, only "plot" and "cursed" weapons are immune.

Rust monsters can also do an antenna attack: touch attack vs. PC, then item struck is decided upon (checks various equipment slots for a "metal" item, again decided by item base type), if metal item is struck, PC rolls a Reflex save...DC starts at 20, and goes down by 1 per 10,000 gp value of the item.

Thanks The Amethyst Dragon for the explanation! Is there a way for the player to determine if an item is "metal" or not?
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:59 pm

odbo255 wrote:Is there a way for the player to determine if an item is "metal" or not?
Sure. Think of the most basic version of whatever item you are wondering about. Is the main part metal? If so, chances are the item is considered to be made of metal.

club? not metal
quarterstaff? not metal
any sword you can think of? metal
armor? depends on the type

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Post by odbo255 on Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:21 pm

The Amethyst Dragon wrote:
odbo255 wrote:Is there a way for the player to determine if an item is "metal" or not?
Sure. Think of the most basic version of whatever item you are wondering about. Is the main part metal? If so, chances are the item is considered to be made of metal.

club? not metal
quarterstaff? not metal
any sword you can think of? metal
armor? depends on the type

Good rule of thumb, but what I was specifically inquiring about are items where it may not be self-apparent.

Examples:
Arrows/Bolts
Necklaces
(Some) Helmets
Boots
Gloves/gauntlets
Armor - this one seems really ambiguous in some cases. For instance, is a vest metal or not? Is studded leather metal? What about hide or splint armor?

I'm sure there are others I'm not thinking of.

If it requires a player to interact with the toolset to investigate, that's fine - I'm just trying to figure out if there is anyway to answer these cases where it may not seem so clear.
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Post by Elhanan on Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:28 pm

Personally, after all these many years, I consider any item to be edible for these loathsome creatures, and am not too proud to say that tactical retreat (or complete avoidance) is my usual tactic of choice. Even more now, as I thought Voucher Items respawned upon reset....

Crying or Very sad
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Post by odbo255 on Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:46 pm

Elhanan wrote:Personally, after all these many years, I consider any item to be edible for these loathsome creatures, and am not too proud to say that tactical retreat (or complete avoidance) is my usual tactic of choice. Even more now, as I thought Voucher Items respawned upon reset....

Crying or Very sad

Hmmm if this is all you can do (IE, there is no way to determine in advance if an item is edible or not), then it seems that the best method to deal with them (barring the suggestions above) is to have a second set of proven inedible and/or disposable equipment you can equip just for the RM encounters.
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Post by Elhanan on Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:03 pm

In the few instances I have encountered them, ranged attacks worked fairly well, as have magical spells. But mostly I flee, esp my armored characters.
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Post by Ramana Jala on Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:14 am

odbo255 wrote:
Hmmm if this is all you can do (IE, there is no way to determine in advance if an item is edible or not), then it seems that the best method to deal with them (barring the suggestions above) is to have a second set of proven inedible and/or disposable equipment you can equip just for the RM encounters.
That's my method, to immediately unequip my swords/shield/helm and change to gloves of acid or sonic or some non-metallic weapon. Bows work, they aren't metal. Fortunately, my two characters wear either Light Armor (leather) or no armor (cloth), so I don't have to swap my armor out. But if you wear Medium or especially Heavy Armor, you need to think about changing that on the spur of the moment. I'm not entirely sure about amulets or rings or bracers, although if something is irreplaceable you should definitely take it off.

My Ranger/Rogue hasn't found Rust Monsters to be very difficult, so a +5 light leather armor and some non-metallic weapon, even hand-to-hand, will likely be all you'll need in your inventory slots. Especially if you avoid them crowding up to you by singling them out with ranged and hit-and-run tactics.

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Post by daveyeisley on Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:33 am

I just go invis, block their advance with force barriers, and then make them explode Razz
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Post by Ramana Jala on Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:02 am

That works too!

Trifle not!

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Post by Angel of Death on Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:36 am

Bare-handed and naked works wonders against rust monsters since they got nothin' in the form of defense, even a wizard can fight'em up close and be sure to hit. Just ask a certain Knight. >.>
Razz

But yes, there's ways around fighting those beasts. They aren't as scary as their reputation claims if you just think up the right tactic to use in fighting them; the simple "rush and beat with a sword" does not work very well on them. XD

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