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Post by MannyJabrielle on Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:05 am

Berenice dragged me down there...

We both wailed on it for a good long while. Nada. I was doing several instances of 30+ points of damage (all slashing, no other damage type), but no escape, even after several minutes of hacking away at it.

Also, Berenice said that only small/tiny weapons would work. That's a very limited list for slashers, kama, whip, sickle, kukri, handaxe. Not sure about kurkis or hand axes, but sickles and whips auto-unequip in there (although with whips I can understand, just not the sickle).

ALso cannot swap bracers or cloaks in the that area either, not sure if that's intended, but it realy sucked notbeing able to put on lysis bracers.
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Post by MannyJabrielle on Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:33 am

eh, never mind about the damage not working.... cut up the gizzard with Angar, although it took a good long hacking (several K worth at 31 to 45 damage per hit).

Scratch that.... Angar didn't get out on his own, Berenice apparently killed it from the outside, which popped me out :-/
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:04 pm

I'm reworking the gizzard now as a creature instead of a placeable, making it so that it suffers damage only from slashing and now piercing (so short swords and daggers will work on it too). Fixing the code that was unequipping sickles as well).

I'll miss the little jiggle that boulder appearance gives when you hit it though...

I'm also adding some code so I can view debugging info to make sure everything is adding right. If it's not, I'll find out a way to fix it. Smile

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Post by daveyeisley on Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:07 pm

Is it safe to assume that death by digestion means acid damage?

Also, what about escaping via energy based attacks? The inside of the gizzard shouldnt be immune to anything other than acid (maybe, just maybe it would have some resistances) but it should be able to have a hole punched through with force/magical damage (magic missiles/ring of the ram anyone?) and the other energy types should still be effective when used in large quantities.

Casting down there should be very tough, requiring concentration checks, too. Item use shouldnt be too bad, though.
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:17 pm

Digestion is a combination of crushing (bludgeoning) and acid damage. Acid resistance will let you live longer, but the crushing damage will still kill you eventually.

The gizzard is immune to everything except cutting/poking, since you normally can't target a single part of a creature with a spell. You can cast other spells (elemental resistance, armoring spells, etc.), but teleportation magic doesn't work from inside a creature.

I will alter the equip scripts to allow equipping/swapping of items in other equipment slots while inside. I overlooked equipment swapping of things other than weapons in the script. Oops.


Last edited by The Amethyst Dragon on Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:21 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Updating post.)

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Post by daveyeisley on Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:39 pm

Wait... so spellcasters are just totally screwed then?
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Post by Ra Cha Chongo on Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:49 pm

I would think at least a few spells should still be useful; Disintegrate comes readily to mind, not to mention a slightly more unconventional one
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Post by daveyeisley on Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:03 pm

spell normally dont need to target a specific part of a creature, if they hit a creature (touch attack), or that creature is caught in the area.... then the creature takes dmg.

Enough damage and you can make a hole in any creature.

And since when is the inside of a creature a teleport blocked zone?
If the creature had some sort of dimensional warping or anti-magic effect going on i might buy that..... but if a caster gets trapped in a worms gullet, there is no logical reason i can see that they shoulnt be able to teleport/word of recall out.
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Post by Ceorlas on Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:24 pm

Spellcasters screwed ? Not at all. Just don't go near the damn thing Smile

http://aenea.aforumfree.com/screenshot-gallery-f14/congratulations-berenice-t1890.htm#11525
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:45 pm

daveyeisley wrote:Wait... so spellcasters are just totally screwed then?
Carry a dagger. Even a plain, non-magical one will work once I save the module and reset the server. Smile

Oh, and stand back and fire spells at it. It has no spell resistance. flame

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Post by RustyDios on Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:39 pm

Oh.. and now the usefulness of the wizards familiar shines through... the better a mage ye be, the better this becomes ye last hope in the event of being swallowed alive !

Oh.. and standing back and firing spells at it would be good ... if it was immobile... but it's not... you run, turn around, aim, go to fire spell.. and it's hid in the dirt and popping up right next to ye again....

((But DON'T change it.. the in/out of the ground visuals just to look too cool to want it immobile... finally something that's a good challenge for spellcasters... ~not including the ever damning bee's))
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Post by daveyeisley on Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:52 pm

If the damage needed to break out is a low amount, sure.

Ill get a dagger.

Im not thrilled about having yet *another* thing I need to keep on a quickslot...

I am still interested in why spells from inside the gizzard would not facilitate an escape, nor why one cannot teleport out. Those two things I have an issue with.
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Post by RustyDios on Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:01 pm

Yeah I'm still bugged about spells being cast inside it...

How about this idea :
Any attempt at casting ANY spell forces a concentration check, with a DC40... that way only very high power focused casters can possibly bring forth the verbal,somatic or material components neccessary to cast a spell... ((or some similar formula))...

Anyone with less concentration then that are simply too busy thinking about being digested alive.. ... and must resort to a melee weapon...
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:51 pm

The damage needed to escape is 25 cumulative points. Hit 25 points or more of slashing/piercing, and you should be out of there...then I suggest running.

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Post by MannyJabrielle on Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:02 pm

Hehe, I'd leave behind a few alchemist dragon eggs before leaving, give that nasty worm a case of heartburn it'd never forget Very Happy
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Post by daveyeisley on Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:46 pm

MannyJabrielle wrote:Hehe, I'd leave behind a few alchemist dragon eggs before leaving, give that nasty worm a case of heartburn it'd never forget Very Happy

Good thought. It would be nice if delayed blast fireballs could do similar.
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:23 pm

Just tested by sacrificing Delnato to the worm...escaping is currently bugged, but I got some debugging info out of it. My advise: if you see a purple worm...leave immediately.

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Post by Svair on Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:32 pm

The Amethyst Dragon wrote:. ...My advise: if you see a purple worm...leave immediately.

Even if the Fremen call me "Maud'dib"?


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Post by daveyeisley on Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:07 pm

Svair wrote:
The Amethyst Dragon wrote:. ...My advise: if you see a purple worm...leave immediately.

Even if the Fremen call me "Maud'dib"?

lol crackhead Razz
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Post by Svair on Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:38 am

daveyeisley wrote:
Svair wrote:
The Amethyst Dragon wrote:. ...My advise: if you see a purple worm...leave immediately.

Even if the Fremen call me "Maud'dib"?

lol crackhead Razz

I insist on "spicehead".
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:21 am

Escaping is currently working, provided you're the only one inside at the time. I'm working on a fix to force you into cutscene mode for a couple of seconds while you make the "jump" to outside, since party members' battling with the gizzard seems to interrupt the transfer.

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Post by daveyeisley on Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:49 pm

Give the gizzard a "greater sanctuary" effect. Even folks with true seeing will be unable to target it at that point, with melee or spells.
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Post by Ra Cha Chongo on Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:35 pm

Finally found one with Gog tonight (lotsa fun, btw Very Happy ). After the fourth or fifth time I was swallowed, though, I ran into some kind of issue: although I was getting the "I've cut my way free!" message (a dozen or more times), I wasn't being let out. It seemed like it might have something to do with the speed with which I was getting out? Strength based character with a decent handaxe is out in one or two shots to the gizzard, so I think I may have "escaped" twice in a round or something.
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Post by MannyJabrielle on Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:49 pm

I wonder if it may have anything to do with someone else escaping previously in the given reset.
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Post by Ra Cha Chongo on Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:58 am

Wouldn't know, but like I said, I did manage to get out at least a few times
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Post by Calzier on Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:34 pm

This is still a bug. Just got swallowed (20.30 GMT), cut my way out, immediately swallowed..

Tried the same thing again, got the feedback text that I had cut myself out (repeatedly), but stayed in the gut. Used Lysis bracers to escape.

I don't know how this is scripted, but if local variables are being set, is it possible that they aren't being 'unset'?
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Post by Calzier on Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:59 am

Ok, so I managed to kill one today.. first time I wasn't swallowed.. and what did I get..?

47 XP. Really.. I get 104xp for a cinder troll, and they just take time...

So, as a suggestion, perhaps up the XP for purple worms?
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Post by MannyJabrielle on Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:18 pm

What level are ya? They pay very well at the lower levels (max XP for level 12).... I'd imagine the XP would start to drop a bit if you're in the mid epic levels
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Post by Calzier on Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:51 pm

MannyJabrielle wrote:What level are ya? They pay very well at the lower levels (max XP for level 12).... I'd imagine the XP would start to drop a bit if you're in the mid epic levels

29th, which explains the low score.. but that's why I quoted the trolls - at level 12 I'd *never* have been able to kill a purple worm, not with this build.
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Post by MannyJabrielle on Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:45 pm

Hehe, bows man. My shadowdancer couldn't melee the worm either at 12th (although she was taking on beholders by that point!)
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Post by daveyeisley on Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:57 am

Phyllick got trapped in a purple worm last night (heh), and even once he got a dagger and did the dmg, and got the msg that he had cut his way free.... the script did not fire properly.

The red glow visual fired off, but he went nowhere. As mentioned by others prior, he got the "cut my way free" message multiple times in the same round.... I am guessing that this may have interfered with the escape script.
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Post by evilkittenofdoom on Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:30 am

I hate to (sorta) change the topic here, but my level 4 cleric once killed a Purple Worm (after 25 mins of pelting it with a sling) and got almost no XP. Might I suggest making such a feat at such a low level worth a great deal of XP?

On a more related note, once the worm starts it's movement visual, it's location as to where it will appear above the groun is fixed, allowing more than enough time to escape it's wrath before it pops up again (at what would have been) next to you. To make this more challenging, is there a way to make the worm appear next to you even if you move after it's started the visual effect?
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Post by Elhanan on Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:01 am

evilkittenofdoom wrote:I hate to (sorta) change the topic here, but my level 4 cleric once killed a Purple Worm (after 25 mins of pelting it with a sling) and got almost no XP. Might I suggest making such a feat at such a low level worth a great deal of XP?

On a more related note, once the worm starts it's movement visual, it's location as to where it will appear above the groun is fixed, allowing more than enough time to escape it's wrath before it pops up again (at what would have been) next to you. To make this more challenging, is there a way to make the worm appear next to you even if you move after it's started the visual effect?

Personally, it would only take a minor distraction or being bitten by the lag monster to make this a fatal error, IMO. No thanks.

And Aargyle has being shooting Purple Worms since he was a wee lad of like lvls, and I only recall getting outstanding XP. Or being consumed.
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Post by daveyeisley on Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:50 am

Not sure why you didnt get great XP for the worm kill... every time i have killed them as a lowbie, i have gotten several hundred xp... which is the best you can hope for at low levels due to the XP caps.... 100 times your current level is the cap formula i believe....

And I honestly have to agree with elhanan that if the worms were more difficult to dodge when things are working properly, the issues we have with lag would make them a lot less fun. Sure, its easy to dodge them when your game and network are working well.... but a little lag hiccup would put you in the gizzard pretty much automatically.... especially if youre low level... and good luck surviving in there with low level hps and gear Razz so it would pretty much be an auto-death...
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Post by DMT on Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:05 pm

My character Randell tried to battle this beast, which he was doing well until he eaten by the purple worm. When he was in its stomach, he went straight to the gizzard and started to bash the heck out of it. I escaped and went forth to finish this beast. But got swallowed once again. This time, when I equipped my sword it immediately was un-equipped. Tried equipping it again and it was un-equipped just as fast.

Unfortunately I dead inside the beast's belly. But I will try defeating this beast in the next season or two.



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Post by evilkittenofdoom on Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:06 pm

Yeah. That formula explains how I didnt get as much XP as I thought I might. When I said Almost no XP, I meant almost no XP in relation to the amount of effort put out to kill the thing. I think I got 400XP at level 4 when i was getting over 1200 at level 13ish. I didn't think that was all that fair as my level 13 could tear the thing apart. I did in fact get the maximum XP available for my level then.

Also, I noticed that sometimes the thing is completely immobile while at other times the thing will move around after every damage it takes.
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Post by Elhanan on Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:23 pm

Spells fired at it seem to get their attention quickly. Aargyle found this out the hard way when he tried using Magic Missles.

Now Aarg uses arrows every time. Unless he is standing by a wizard NOT using ammo.... affraid
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Post by MannyJabrielle on Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:34 pm

At the very low (under 10th level) the worm seems to give less than max XP, but from 10th on, you get the max possible.

At levels as low as 7th I've gotten 419 or so XP, which is less than the maxed 700 XP
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Post by evilkittenofdoom on Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:29 pm

I got 450 at level 6. Definitely not maxed.
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Post by daveyeisley on Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:01 pm

Does it need to be maxxed? I think several hundred is pretty darn good Smile
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Post by Christopher Robin R2 on Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:12 pm

So where exactly are these purple worms, anyway?
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Post by MannyJabrielle on Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:36 pm

Yeah, several hundred's good Smile Although for the time it takes for a low level to take one of those damn things down, I wouldn't mind seeing a tad more, wouldn't complain if it was left as were either.

As for where to find them, I know of two places. Take a hike to Tradeholm, explore aaaall areas completely Smile You can find neat stuff literally just a stones throw off the beaten path in several places (and I'm not just talking about big eat you whole worms).
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Post by MannyJabrielle on Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:20 am

Just had a discouraging worm-ate-me encounter. Cut up the gizzard, got the "I have cut my way free" message, and nothing. Only got the message once, in a single attack in the round, so it wasn't a case of multiple attacks in a round messing up the script. Was minutes after a reset as well, so it couldn't have been that someone else already went in and cut their way out.
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Post by evilkittenofdoom on Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:19 pm

daveyeisley wrote:Does it need to be maxxed? I think several hundred is pretty darn good Smile
For the twenty minutes it took me to kill it, I kinda would expect maxxed XP Razz


Anyway, what is the reasoning behind only allowing tiny weapons to be used inside the stomach of this silly thing. And for that matter, why is the area teleport blocked?
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Post by daveyeisley on Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:26 pm

evilkittenofdoom wrote:
daveyeisley wrote:Does it need to be maxxed? I think several hundred is pretty darn good Smile
For the twenty minutes it took me to kill it, I kinda would expect maxxed XP Razz

Well the time invested doesnt always equate to XP gained as much as threat level... you can kill them faster with different tactics... but those other tactics involve it having much higher threat level and greater likelihood of your death.

I agree on hating the teleport block... it makes no stinking sense at all.
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Post by Elhanan on Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:08 am

I agree on hating the teleport block... it makes no stinking sense at all.

Worm constipation due to all the Drow heavy iron in it's diet? Laughing
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:11 am

Small and tiny weapons: You're constantly being crushed by the worm's gut...you don't have room to swing anything bigger (taken from D&D purple worms).

Teleportation blocked: Prevents setting inside the gut as a teleport target, and prevents escape by potions of escape (a non-D&D item that is very easily purchased that basically removes any threat of being killed by such a creature).

And yes, some little things still need to be fixed about these nasty critters (mainly, the occassional non-escapes when rapidly cutting your way free and the non-trasfer of damage inside the worm to the worm itself). For this second one, I plan on adding a section inside that you can attack to hurt the worm via direct damage attacks/spells (but doesn't directly lead to escape).

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Post by daveyeisley on Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:06 pm

The Amethyst Dragon wrote:Teleportation blocked: Prevents setting inside the gut as a teleport target, and prevents escape by potions of escape (a non-D&D item that is very easily purchased that basically removes any threat of being killed by such a creature).

On the teleport issue. If you dont want folks using potions of escape, thats fine... just block potions of escape... not ALL teleportation. If you dont want folks setting teleport targets, just block setting teleport points inside that area. It is not fair to remove all teleportation as that is the best way for certain classes to deal with this creature based on their class features and there is no good RP reason for blocking it. Allow teleportation OUT if someone has UMD for the scrolls or the ability to cast the spell.
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Post by daveyeisley on Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:45 pm

Teleport still needs fixing on these creatures.

Also, the "escape" script still sometimes seems to not fire.

I think it may be related to weapons with elemental damage on them.

I cut my way out 4 times with the Familiar dagger (only time you the thing will ever see any use) and got IMMEDIATELY re-swallowed, then finally got pissed off and activated the daggers power so I could hit harder.... did the 25 points and saw the emote... but this time the escape didnt happen.

Now, becayse the worm's gut is teleport blocked, and its immune to most spells, and it wont die for some reason from HUNDREDS of points of damage... my pc is stuck in there till next reset. Yay for lame.
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Post by evilkittenofdoom on Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:28 pm

Right, and Crid's immune to acid damage, right? I can go grab Aseph and slay the thing if you want, just let me know (maybe, assuming I'm not busy with RL before a reset)
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