Just need a clarification please

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Just need a clarification please

Post by Drgnwlkr on Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:27 pm

While I'm guessing it is not a bug, I am trying to figure out why disintegration even exists. This is my second day of doing all kinds of recommended adjustments against the spell or whatever. I noticed that two deaths ago I failed a fort save at 15 needing a 17. I spent the gold to adjust for that and now with this death I failed with a 24 vs a 17. I suppose the key to all this is just stay of Deathwater Island since apparently the fort save you need doesn't ever reach success? I apologize if I sound harsh but not only have I died there way too many times but also with multiple chars.
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Re: Just need a clarification please

Post by Elhanan on Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:45 pm

A roll of 1 ST is always a fail, and that is a 5% shot for those many, many attempts. This seems to be where having decent SR comes into play, as my Demonspawn and Bright Gnomes can hunt relatively unscathed, but my Dwarves die now and again.
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Re: Just need a clarification please

Post by Drgnwlkr on Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:12 pm

How decent SR do you need? I had 14. If its set to where you will definitely roll a 1 almost constant then I just won't venture there. I was told a high Will helped but it didn't. I could try with a SR of 16 but not until I get more gold and Zolara's gifts =)
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Re: Just need a clarification please

Post by Elhanan on Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:49 pm

Drgnwlkr wrote:How decent SR do you need? I had 14. If its set to where you will definitely roll a 1 almost constant then I just won't venture there. I was told a high Will helped but it didn't. I could try with a SR of 16 but not until I get more gold and Zolara's gifts =)

Not a number cruncher, but as an experienced visitor to the Great Hall, I would not rely on a SR score less than 30; reading that 66 is required for full Immunity. See here:

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Spell_resistance

My Ranger ventured out on Beholder hunts occasionally with little or no SR; just decent ST. He did well on Deathwater, as I was able to take many at ranged combat. In the caverns, hunting was less effective; no personal deaths one trip, and three the next

My experience tells me that it is probably done as fairly as possible; a death dealing blow that seemingly requires a To Hit roll (ie; Ranged Touch Attack for rays), and a pre-Epic ST.

More balanced than Dev Crit, IMO *ducks for incoming* Razz
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Re: Just need a clarification please

Post by Drgnwlkr on Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:57 pm

Thank you for your insight, it is appreciated =)
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Re: Just need a clarification please

Post by daveyeisley on Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:38 pm

Elhanan wrote:
More balanced than Dev Crit, IMO *ducks for incoming* Razz

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, sir. And this is yours, I get that Smile

I do, however, have a good deal of mechanical knowledge and evidence to back up my conflicting opinion that dev crit is balanced just fine... especially if we are accepting disintegrate as acceptably balanced.

Save or die effects are part of the game, and can be very frustrating to get killed by... but can be a lot of fun to use. And there are myriad defenses against them. To whit:

For Beholder's disintegrate, it is trickier than normal disintegrate because of the beholder's Anti-Magic that will automatically dispel any magical buffs you have such as Spell Resistance or Spell mantle that would normally protect you from the spell. However, some things that will still work, let me give a list:

  1. SR of 28 or more will give a decent chance of resisting a beholder disintegrate.

  2. A touch AC (does not include armor, natural armor, or shield bonuses) of 27 or more will make the ray attack miss about 50% of the time. You want dodge and deflection bonuses and a good dex bonus for this.

  3. A fortitude saving throw of +20 or more will success on most of the saves unless you roll a 1. items that boost Constitution, fortitude saves, or universal save bonuses are useful for this.

  4. Striking from invisibility or stealth to gain a few free attacks before the beholder can react (use invisibility potions, sold in Tradeholm's wizard tower) will often mean you can kill it before it can nail you with a nasty eyebeam. You can also drink a potion after your attacks, to hide yourself from additional eyebeams, and give yourself time to heal up before your next surprise attack.

  5. Disabling attacks such as stunning fist, fear, or blinding attacks will make the beholder unable to shoot beams for a time, while you can whack at it safely. This can work well combined with invisibility to gain surprise.

  6. Immunity to Transmutation on a custom item will make you totally safe from disintegrate, though it is very pricey (and should be).

Beholders are one of the deadliest monsters in the game.... rightfully so.... NWN makes them a little more powerful than normal... but if you take the time to seek out gear, and execute a good strategy... they can be huntwed successfully.... and the rewards cna be very well worth it.
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Re: Just need a clarification please

Post by Angel of Death on Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:11 pm

Immunity to Transmutation on a custom item will make you totally safe from disintegrate, though it is very pricey (and should be).

Immunity to Death Magic on an item works wonders too (and its cheaper to get on an item than total immunity to a spell school! Wink ); the helmet my paladin got have saved him a lot of times. Smile . . .of course that doesn't help much against their flesh to stone beams. He does make one pretty statue though! Razz

Most people familiar with playing a sneaker PC probably already know this, but the best Tactical Offense for a sneaker is usually the combination of Ultra Vision + Darkness spells. Smile

Ultra Vision + Darkness + Sneak/Death Attack = monster kebab! Twisted Evil


Last edited by Angel of Death on Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:22 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Because I can!)
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Re: Just need a clarification please

Post by Drgnwlkr on Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:13 pm

I apologize, I didn't mean my little whine to go so far =) Yes, it was frustrating yesterday but my mood wasn't right to begin with. Today was not as bad and I have learned with Elladyr that a sneak attack even if they are immune does still give benefit...thank the gods hehe

Thanks Dave for your insight and I didn't mean to cause any spoilers to be stated, if someone considers them that. I know on the MUD I used to play 'luck' had alot to do with things and it could change quickly for a char. Maybe some of my chars should carry a rabbits foot since yesterday? I'm just joking =)

Anyhow, thanks to you all for helping me through my whiney 'I died 16 billion times' day
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Re: Just need a clarification please

Post by MannyJabrielle on Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:32 am

Immunity to deathmagic is good vs beholders too because they also have a ray that does finger of death.

however deathmagic immunity will not protect against disintegration since that spell isn't "death magic".
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Re: Just need a clarification please

Post by Drgnwlkr on Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:46 pm

That's what I thought about the immunity to death magic...people tried to claim it would help against implosion too but no such luck, hehe
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Re: Just need a clarification please

Post by Elhanan on Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:32 pm

Placebo effect.... Arrow
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Re: Just need a clarification please

Post by daveyeisley on Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:12 pm

Elhanan wrote:Placebo effect.... Arrow

LOL!

PC: "Am I dead?"

Avatar of Zolaras: "Umm.. no. Nope. Definitely not dead.... youre obviously immune to Death Magic, so.... umm... you were just temporarily shunted to the Great Heall to, umm... protect you from being really dead. Yeah."

PC: "Crap. I'm dead. Again. Dammit."
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Re: Just need a clarification please

Post by Elhanan on Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:42 pm

I was thinking more along the lines of....

PC: I survived! And it is all due to my lucky helm!

Dying Elder Beholder: Silly gnat! You were shaking so much we could not hit you.... Idea
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Re: Just need a clarification please

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