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Partially Used: Spell 'Combos'

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Post by daveyeisley Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:29 pm

Would be cool if certain spells helped to 'set up' other spells... like a one-two punch.

For example, a grease spell would 'set up' a fire spell buy giving creatures caught in the
area a 10% vulnerability to fire. Fire immune creatures should still be immune, I think...
so a fire elemental still wouldnt be affect (as it should be)... but a goblin, for instance,
would take 10% more damage from the burning hands because parts of him are covered
in a flammable substance. The 10% vulnerability would be applied whether or not the
creatures saves against the falling/knockdown.

Another example would be for for a druid.... cast Drown on an enemy, and even
if they make the save, it would apply a 10% shock vulnerability due to the
extra water created in/on the target... which would set up a Call Lightning
nicely.

Plenty of other permutations.... just wanted to get the idea out there.

Im thinking about ways for meleers to work some similar shenanigans Smile
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Post by Lasombra Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:50 pm

An amazing idea! I would even play a wizard if this was implemented Partially Used: Spell 'Combos' Icon_razz
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Post by Maeglin Dubh Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:21 pm

Someone's been playing Dragon Age.
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Post by daveyeisley Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:49 pm

No Dragon age here... not yet anyhow... it is on the list.
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Post by daveyeisley Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:34 am

Bumping to keep spell suggestions close together.
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Post by daveyeisley Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:11 pm

More Spell combos:

1. Darkness sets up Sunburst/Sunbeam by applying temporary save penalty(victims eyes start adjusting to dark, then get blasted with light)

2. Fireball/Firebrand/Delayed Blast Fireball sets up Glacius' Hypothermia(or other cold based spell) with 5/10/15% cold vulnerability.

3. Gust of Wind/Tempest's Microburst/Stampede/Sphere of Denial/Overpowering Shout/(other knockdown spells) set up evards black tentacles/bigbies hand spells/Phoenix's teleportation capture/
(other 'grappling' type spells) by applying a temporary penalty to saves or grapple checks.

For meleers:

1. Successful Disarm applies a temporary -4 to victims discipline skill, setting up a Knockdown attempt. (harder to fend a bull rush with no weapon)

2. Fleet of Foot sets up a double whirlwind attack, where once fleet of foot is active, the next whirlwind or improved whilrwind attack will hit all enemies in range TWICE. (cannot repeat until fleet of foot wears off and an action is spent reactivating it)

3. Parry Mode sets up a disarm attempt by applying a temporary -4 to victim's discipline after a successful riposte.
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Post by daveyeisley Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:20 am

for spells that petrify, it would be cool if they set up other forms of attack for 'breaking/smashing' the statues. Also, statues would be somewhat naturally resistant to certain forms of attack, as well.

Was talking it over with eeriegeek, and this is by no means perfect, but its a start:

1. When a spell petrifies a target, the spell would additionally apply a 100% bludgeoning damage vulnerability. Spells that inflict bludgeoning damage, or warriors with bludgeoning weapons would then have the proper 'smashfest' if they attack the statues... and spells like tempest's microburst and bigby's crushing hand, and even meteor swarm would allow for spell combos Smile (imagine if Bane's Gorgon Blast were added, and you could combine two 9th level spell slots for the gorgon blast followed up with a meteor swarm? )
Partially Used: Spell 'Combos' Icon_cheers

2. Would also apply a -20 penalty to reflex saves (I mean cmon, a dodging inanimate statue?!?)

3. Victim would gain resistance 5/- to slashing, piercing, cold, fire, and electrical damage. (edit: or even 10/- resistance, as stoneskin gives 10/+5 damage reduction...)

4. Victim would count as a 'boulder' for the purposes of a successful save against the dissonance spell.

Edit: 5. Stone to Flesh spell would cancel all of the above effects on the victim. Partially Used: Spell 'Combos' Icon_cool


Last edited by daveyeisley on Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:48 pm; edited 6 times in total (Reason for editing : its *not* a 'will save'... its a 'won't save'!!!! and a pound of cure added too:))
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Post by MannyJabrielle Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:44 pm

I've been playing Dragonage, and yes, spell combos are fun.

I thought of a way to implement this, although it's slightly different from the original suggestion.

Create a new 1st level spell for all spell casters, a "primer" spell. The spell could be targeted on the caster, on an ally/enemy, on on the ground (in which case it creates a spelltrigger type NPC to be the target).

when a target is primed, the next two, three or four spells cast on it could trigger a combo effect. If the spells fired at the target are not a valid combo nothign happens. If a valid combo is used, a "combo effect" script triggers, firing off the appropriate effects for the combo.

This could also enhance teamplay... A sorcerer and cleric together... Sorcerer "primes" the target, cleric casts soundburst on target, the sorc then casts grease, and the cleric finishes up with firestorm. End effect... an "explosive" combo that can deafen all with in range, and set them on fire like a mass combustion spell.

Grease + any fire spell could also create a mass combustion type AOE.

Flesh to Stone + Soundburst? Target gets stoned, and then instead of making a fort save to avoid deafness, must make a fort save to not be shattered to a bunch of pebbles.

Web + vampiric touch = Webbing will suck the life out of targets who are stuck in it until they break free.

Earthen rupture + tornado = The tornado does increased bludgeoning damage due to it kicking around rocks torn out of the ground.

Earthen rupture + flesh to stone... A Druid and Wizard concoct a AoE petrify combo together.

An AoE combo variant... Summon fire elemental + crag's stone armor + combust = Creates a magma elemental instead of a fire elemental.

Ice storm + fire storm + chain lighting = A "mini hellball" conjured by a cleric/wizard team... not quite as much damage as a hellball, and no knockdown, but still nasty damage a bit beyond the three spells by themselves.

tempests's protective gale + a damage shield spell cast on oneself... caster somewhat mimics the druid's "tornado spell", but on a more 'elemental' level... the gale flicking acid, fire, ect about for the duration of the gale spell itself.

Magic missle/lesser missile storm/greater missile storm + delayed blast fireball = A timed "magic ball" that dishes out magical damage instead of fire damage.

Flesh to stone + sphere of denial... like the FtS+Soundburst combo, could shatter the target.

Heal + greater restoration + regeneration + ressurection on an ally.... for a single turn, the ally becomes simply unkillable by any physical damage such as from weapons or spells that do physical damage such as grim harvest, ect, and can't be critted (no dev or vorpal strikes).
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Post by daveyeisley Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:03 pm

I dont see any reason both ways couldnt be used? They would seem to be somewhat complimentary in some aspects.

The only thing that minorly concerns me is if a target is 'primed' and spells are cast on it... do the spells have any effect individually? or are they just held as 'keys' to unlock the 'combo effect'? It would sill be better than no spell combos at all, but I like the idea of each spell still having its normal effect on the target... and subsequent 'combo' spells having increased effects because of the prior spells. Still, both ways could be done. The more the merrier Smile
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Post by MannyJabrielle Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:31 pm

For normal casting, I see the spells working on normal. For the "AoE targetting NPC" I would imagine it would be more like spell trigger, since I'm not sure how AoE spells work mechanics wise and can hook onto other AoE's cast in the same space on the ground like they can with PC/NPC targets.
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Post by daveyeisley Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:45 pm

I think the best way to handle it would be to have whatever AoE is cast, apply some sort of effect(s)/variable(s) to the creatures caught in its area, which subsequent spells would look for. I think you're right that with few exceptions (cloud type spells and Gust of Wind, AoE Dispels, etc) most AoE spells targeted on the ground arent set up to detect other AoE spells in the area.
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Post by Svair Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:43 pm

Ah yes. Grease + Burning Hands is a Golden pnp tactic for 1st level wizards.

:-) It would be cool to see it implemented.

Edit: Man, maybe there weren't formalized mechanics for the combo - maybe it was just my DM who allowed stuff like that.
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Post by MannyJabrielle Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:21 pm

I think most DM's had houserules for that combo.
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Post by Kefrem Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:52 am

in the very first gold box ssi game i believe they had the grease/fire combo...it added 1d6 dmg to the whole shibang.
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Post by Elhanan Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:23 am

Being old school, I have always preferred Web/ fire combo; smells like Victory!
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:40 pm

I'm going to be using a form of this suggestion, and I've started work on the coding for it.

I'm going to be adding a new feat for clerics, druids, sorcerers, and wizards called Spell Opportunist.  It'll be a passive feat (won't have to be activated) that will enable the caster to take advantage of his/her in-depth knowledge of spells to gain some small benefits.

One aspect will be like this thread is suggesting: getting a better benefit by following up certain spells with certain other ones.

A few examples:
fireball hitting near the center of a grease spell - grease smoulders for duration, inflicting 1d4 fire damage on those that fail their saves and slip in it
drown - target is covered in water, so saves vs. spells like lightning bolt are at an effective -2 for a couple of rounds
phantasmal killer on a target under the effects of a fear spell - phantasmal killer save DC is 4 higher
flesh to stone cast on a target that has regular (not greater) stoneskin - save DC for the petrification is 3 higher (and yes, you could cast stoneskin on another creature, then hit them with flesh to stone!)

A second aspect of this feat is that such a caster can gain some minor benefit by pushing certain spells just a little beyond their normal effects.

Some examples:
lightning bolt - daze target(s) for 1 round on failed save(s)
see invisibility - +2 to Spot checks for duration
mestil's acid breath - create a 1/2 duration stinking cloud at target location
feeblemind - target suffers -1 to Will saves for duration on failed save
remove disease - target gains +4 to saves vs. disease for 1 hour

Since I'm going with a feat for this, it will require a hak update, but it won't be for a little while yet since I need to finish modifying all of the affected spells.

A complete list of affected spells (and effects) will get posted on the website once I'm done (with a link off the feat description on the "feats" page).  This way, it won't just be blind "throwing spells together" to find out which ones work...Aenea's got too many spells for that to be much fun.

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Post by RustyDios Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:18 pm

I don't know why, but with all the lore/knowledge that they are suppose to accrue this feat sounds like it should really be for bards too... and maybe as a bonus for Kalas' Clergy at level 1 instead of Spell Focus: Divination (which is kinda useless! ).....

Just seems to me that if anyone should have advanced knowledge of magical workings then those two should be included in the list...
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:55 pm

Bards are filled with knowledge of history and people, which (in PnP) is how "bardic knowledge" and use of Use Magic Device come into play...they know enough history and stories of magic to make an educated guess at getting a particular magic item to work.  They aren't experts on the intricacies of spells like wizards and devoted clerics.

In my PnP game, bard spells are actually performed as songs, chants, dramatic speaking, or some other form of performance rather than "wizardy" casting.  I just haven't imposed that change on the NWN version (aka, actually having ranks in Perform), and I'm not going to change that particular bit after more than 7 years online.

The same basic reasoning goes for clerics of Kalas.  They can take the feat if they want (as clerics), but they're trained more as "gatherers of information" than "magical experts"...that comes with actual experience as a spellcaster.

The feat will have both a class requirement (mentioned above) and a Spellcraft skill requirement (6+ ranks, so a minimum of 3rd level clr/drd/sor/wiz).  I'm intending it for "full spellcasters" (those that can cast up to 9th level spells) rather than "part timers" like bards, paladins, and rangers.

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Post by RustyDios Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:36 pm

Good enough explanation !
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Post by Angel of Death Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:44 pm

The Amethyst Dragon wrote:Bards are filled with knowledge of history and people, which (in PnP) is how "bardic knowledge" and use of Use Magic Device come into play...they know enough history and stories of magic to make an educated guess at getting a particular magic item to work.  They aren't experts on the intricacies of spells like wizards and devoted clerics.

In my PnP game, bard spells are actually performed as songs, chants, dramatic speaking, or some other form of performance rather than "wizardy" casting.

That's always how I have imagined (and played my bardic characters) bardic music too. Smile

Looking forward to try out spell combos when they become available. Very Happy
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:49 pm

They'll be available with the next hak update.  I've finished with all of the coding changes and 2da changes.

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