Opinion on possible Magic Missile change?

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Modify the spell or leave it alone?

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Total Votes : 7

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Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:54 pm

Hi folks.

I've come up with a way of possibly altering the magic missile spell so that PC casters can pick from a list of different types of visible missiles via VC command (damage remaining the same amount).

Some possible options (depending on what I have time to model):
glowing green daggers
glowing blue spheres (or green, red, white, yellow, orange, etc.)
glowing red lights (or green, blue, yellow, purple, orange, etc.) (blue light would be default if no other option is chosen)
glowing white arrows (or red, blue, green, orange, purple, etc.
flaming human skulls (or with green or red flames)
glowing green fists fists
tiny glowing red dragons (or green, blue, white)

New missile projectiles wouldn't have the same "spread out and converge on target" animation (that's something specific and hardcoded to the default magic missile model), instead following each other in an arcing line to the target. Also, things like spell resistance would have to be checked as the missiles are launched, rather than right when they impact...damage would be applied by the first missile that strikes (rather than split up with each missile...so the first of five missiles would inflict 5d4+5, with the rest simply visuals, rather than as 5 separate damage instances).

So, how much interest is there in this? You can vote in the poll and/or comment below. (3 day poll)

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Post by daveyeisley on Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:23 pm

Sounds like this could be awesome.

Two questions:

1. Can the "glowing blue spheres" option be modelled to have a little bit of a "comet trail"? Not much... just a little blueish-white fiery tail is all...

2. Before we vote, could you maybe post a link to a little test video, so we can all get a feel for what the arcing trajectory, the timing of the SR check, and the timing of damage being dealt would be like?
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Post by RustyDios on Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:15 pm

Would it be possible to pick to the default method for magic missile, if you wanted to use it how it is ? ... or have the current visual as a default ? ... I rather like how it currently has a small stream of numbers for Magic Missile.. and how it all bursts outwards and then zero-in to the target .... however one number damage display would make battle alot clearer... I think I need to see a mini demo.... ...

Would this also effect the Lesser/Greater Missile Storm spells ?
As this spell is often cast by NPC's, what would they default to?
How about the illusionary spell version ?

Considering how Magic Missile is such a common spell this would really allow a caster to diffrentiate "who they are" ....... I'd love to see a Mage Duel Missile Showdown between "Crideas' Blue Comets" and "Aurora's Flaming Skulls" ...

And it follows on nicely from the various other caster-flavour changes, such as What-elemental?, OME-colour?, TensorsDisc-Colour?.... it will start to feel like each caster actually has unique quirks to casting "common" spells....
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Post by Eric of Atrophy on Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:16 pm

If you could still use the original default one as well, I think I would go for this ... options are always, always good! But I'm gonna wait and vote when I see what The Amethyst Dragon says about it - sweeping change as opposed to additional option ...
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Post by MannyJabrielle on Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:21 pm

I rather like the default. I see magic missile as the basic arcane flashbang, nothing fancy. I'm rather fond of the magic missile/missile storm projectiles.
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:42 pm

I can see a way of making the regular missiles an option (or default).

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Post by Eric of Atrophy on Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:30 pm

Cool! Then I cast my vote!
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Post by daveyeisley on Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:50 pm

I am holding off on voting for now, in hopes that The Amethyst Dragon might be willing to give us a sneak peek when he gets a chance.
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:12 pm

I'll see what I can do about a video demo.

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Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:50 am

Proof of Concept Video

Uses a small blue sphere ballistic (arcing up, then down onto target) projectile. Tomorrow I might try with a homing projectile (projectile goes in a straight line to target). Still uses default casting animation/vfx, but launches the custom projectiles. In the video, I switched between 1 missile, 5 missiles, and 3 missiles for testing.

Oh, and in-game the animations and such are smoother. The free video-capture software I use plus conversion by youtube makes things a bit less smooth.

YouTube link (because the video looks better when in a bigger format than if embedded in the forum)

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Post by daveyeisley on Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:43 am

Hrm... the ballistic arc is way too steep, methinks. it should go half as high as it does in the video.... or maybe even less.... probably one-third or one-quarter...

The "comet trail" could stand to be shorter... I was envisioning maybe 2 millimeters in length... it seems like the trails in the video were close to 4 millimeters.

The spheres themselves are ok, but a bit small, they resemble blue dots. The spheres should probably scale up by 50-100%.

The salvos tend to blur together so you can't tell where one sphere starts and the next stops. If they all follow the exact same trajectory it would be hard to fix this unless the projectiles are arrayed side by side during transit... at least up to 2 missiles side by side.... for 3 missiles, it would be a salvo of 2, then 1... and then maybe for 4 missile salvos they could go 2 and then 2... for 5 missiles, it would be 2 salvos of 2, and then a 3rd salvo of 1.

The impact visual could use about 50% larger radius and some thickening of the color, too.
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Post by Elhanan on Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:04 am

I prefer the spell to remain as is for the majority, but could see that allowing Paragon Sorcerers and Wizards to make a thematic change to such spells (ie; MM, ILMS, IGMS, any illusionary dupe spells, etc) might be cool as a signature.
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Post by RustyDios on Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:23 am

My vote is cast ... I'd like to see the option available, but I think the "default" should be the standard visual ... as for mechanics, if it works out the same damage, I don't care how it's applied (lots of 1d4's per missile, or one "total" damage) .....
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:45 am

Doing some experimenting with projectiles. And I plan on implementing these soon (needs a hak update to function, for both the projectile models and for edits to spells.2da).

Each projectile type will be available in "homing" (moves in a straight line from caster to target) and "ballistic" (moves in an arc from caster to target as if thrown by a catapult...so farther target means a higher arc) varieties.

Each projectile type will also have different gaps between projectiles. Ones with trails will have a slightly longer gap in between (.25 to .3 seconds), while projectiles without trails will have a shorter gap (.15 seconds) since they won't blend together as much.

Both involve the projectiles moving one after the other in a line. Just a mechanics limitation, since I don't have time to make at least 5 separate models for every projectile.

The default will be the regular NWN visual, with new visuals chosen via VC command.

For now, this will not change the visual for missile storm or greater missile storm. Those spells run on an entirely different mechanic (script-wise) than magic missile. This may change in the future.

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Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:40 pm

Just made a red ball of light one. In testing, the projectile looks almost exactly like the magic missiles from Baldur's Gate. Smile

Edit: youtube video link

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Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:55 pm

Sample Pics of Baldur's Gate style magic missile projectiles.

Opinion on possible Magic Missile change? Mms_b10Opinion on possible Magic Missile change? Mms_g10Opinion on possible Magic Missile change? Mms_o10Opinion on possible Magic Missile change? Mms_p10Opinion on possible Magic Missile change? Mms_r10Opinion on possible Magic Missile change? Mms_w10Opinion on possible Magic Missile change? Mms_y10

And a 3-shot pic of a ballistic path:
Opinion on possible Magic Missile change? Mms_ar10

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Post by eeriegeek on Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:22 pm

I like the effects. One thing I've noticed is that there not too much in the way of offensive spells at 2nd level (anybody regularly use Gedlee's Electric Loop scratch ). How about leaving MM as is and adding a 2nd level spell as described, doing something like max of 5d6 (6d6 ? 7d4?) with maybe no save or no SR. With the ballistic effect you could call it something like Mordenkainen's Magic Marbles Very Happy
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Post by MannyJabrielle on Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:50 pm

2nd arcane level attack spells aren't too shabby I think. Ghoul touch can paralyze, cloud of bewilderment's pretty handy, combust and gedlee's for direct damaging, acid arrow for damage over time, and then darkness is pretty much awesomeness in a silky sexy black little dress.
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Post by Eric of Atrophy on Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:56 pm

Acid arrow is fantastical, I must say ... I use it to put down monsters all the time ...
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Post by daveyeisley on Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:57 pm

The new projectiles look very cool, thats sort of what I had envisioned myself.

To be more specific, what I am wondering is.... if you can make those spheres slightly more oval-like, and add the short little blue/white fire-comet trail.

Also, how smooth is the animation of the projectiles travel? In the video it looks choppy, and I cant tell how much of that is the recording software, and how much is in-game?

Also, as for the projectiles going side by side.... there would only need to be 2 separate models..... a model of a single projectile and a model of 2 projectiles side by side. The rest would be handled by the delay between the visual effect salvos (based on how many missiles are being fired), so rather than having the same visual fire up to 5 times, you would have 2 different visuals that only fire up to 3 times.
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:11 am

I'll be making a variety of projectiles for these...hoping to be done with them in the next couple of days so I can get a new updates hak out (I'm feeling lucky, so maybe late on the 17th).

The animations on these are much smoother than in the little videos. I blame the choppiness of those on the free software I've got for video capture. If anyone wants to recommend a better free one than CamStudio, I'd like to find others (I've tried fraps, and that was just as bad and left the annoying fraps text at the top of every video). I had another before, but it turns out the "free" was only for a month (which was not in the software description).

As far as an oval shape with a comet trail, isn't that what the normal magic missile projectiles look like? I'd have to see what I can do. I'm ok at modifying existing emitters, but making new ones from scratch is a bit of a stretch for my skills as of yet.

Going to go with the single projectile at a time, rather than grouping in twos or more. This magic missile changing option is actually a spin-off from another thing I'm already working on (modifying stampede and expanding possibilities for adding new spells later that fire off multiple projectiles), so the mechanics of it are, for now, limited.

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Post by daveyeisley on Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:17 am

The normal magic missiles do have an oval-ish shape, and thats sort of the shape I am thinking of... but the texture of the missiles is too whitish, and the trajectory is overblown, imo.

I would like something that goes more in a straight line, and has a nicer coloration, but I do like just the shape of the normal ones.
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:10 am

I think I'm finished with the models for these, the spells.2da edit, and the new spell description for magic missile. Haven't coded the changes yet, but that shouldn't take too long once the new hak is available.

115 new options for your magic missile spell. Will just be a VC command to change the appearance.

For reference: "ballistic" here means an arcing trajectory to the target (as if from a catapult), "homing" means in a straight path to the target.

Spoiler:

0 | default missile appearance
1 | Arrow, Ballistic
2 | Arrow, Homing
3 | Arrow, Black, Ballistic
4 | Arrow, Black, Homing
5 | Arrow, Blue, Ballistic
6 | Arrow, Blue, Homing
7 | Arrow, Green, Ballistic
8 | Arrow, Green, Homing
9 | Arrow, Orange, Ballistic
10 | Arrow, Orange, Homing
11 | Arrow, Purple, Ballistic
12 | Arrow, Purple, Homing
13 | Arrow, Red, Ballistic
14 | Arrow, Red, Homing
15 | Arrow, White, Ballistic
16 | Arrow, White, Homing
17 | Arrow, Yellow, Ballistic
18 | Arrow, Yellow, Homing
19 | Bat, Ballistic
20 | Bat, Homing
21 | Bat, Black, Ballistic
22 | Bat, Black, Homing
23 | Bat, Blue, Ballistic
24 | Bat, Blue, Homing
25 | Bat, Green, Ballistic
26 | Bat, Green, Homing
27 | Bat, Orange, Ballistic
28 | Bat, Orange, Homing
29 | Bat, Purple, Ballistic
30 | Bat, Purple, Homing
31 | Bat, Red, Ballistic
32 | Bat, Red, Homing
33 | Bat, White, Ballistic
34 | Bat, White, Homing
35 | Bat, Yellow, Ballistic
36 | Bat, Yellow, Homing
37 | Comet, Blue, Ballistic
38 | Comet, Blue, Homing
39 | Comet, Green, Ballistic
40 | Comet, Green, Homing
41 | Comet, Orange, Ballistic
42 | Comet, Orange, Homing
43 | Comet, Purple, Ballistic
44 | Comet, Purple, Homing
45 | Comet, Red, Ballistic
46 | Comet, Red, Homing
47 | Comet, White, Ballistic
48 | Comet, White, Homing
49 | Comet, Yellow, Ballistic
50 | Comet, Yellow, Homing
51 | Dagger, Black, Ballistic
52 | Dagger, Black, Homing
53 | Dagger, Blue, Ballistic
54 | Dagger, Blue, Homing
55 | Dagger, Green, Ballistic
56 | Dagger, Green, Homing
57 | Dagger, Orange, Ballistic
58 | Dagger, Orange, Homing
59 | Dagger, Purple, Ballistic
60 | Dagger, Purple, Homing
61 | Dagger, Red, Ballistic
62 | Dagger, Red, Homing
63 | Dagger, White, Ballistic
64 | Dagger, White, Homing
65 | Dagger, Yellow, Ballistic
66 | Dagger, Yellow, Homing
67 | Dragon, Black, Ballistic
68 | Dragon, Black, Homing
69 | Dragon, Blue, Ballistic
70 | Dragon, Blue, Homing
71 | Dragon, Green, Ballistic
72 | Dragon, Green, Homing
73 | Dragon, Red, Ballistic
74 | Dragon, Red, Homing
75 | Dragon, White, Ballistic
76 | Dragon, White, Homing
77 | Fist, Blue, Homing
78 | Fist, Green, Homing
79 | Fist, Orange, Homing
80 | Fist, Purple, Homing
81 | Fist, Red, Homing
82 | Fist, White, Homing
83 | Fist, Yellow, Homing
84 | Skull, Ballistic
85 | Skull, Homing
86 | Skull, Black, Ballistic
87 | Skull, Black, Homing
88 | Skull, Blue, Ballistic
89 | Skull, Blue, Homing
90 | Skull, Green, Ballistic
91 | Skull, Green, Homing
92 | Skull, Orange, Ballistic
93 | Skull, Orange, Homing
94 | Skull, Purple, Ballistic
95 | Skull, Purple, Homing
96 | Skull, Red, Ballistic
97 | Skull, Red, Homing
98 | Skull, White, Ballistic
99 | Skull, White, Homing
100 | Skull, Yellow, Ballistic
101 | Skull, Yellow, Homing
102 | Star, Blue, Ballistic
103 | Star, Blue, Homing
104 | Star, Green, Ballistic
105 | Star, Green, Homing
106 | Star, Orange, Ballistic
107 | Star, Orange, Homing
108 | Star, Purple, Ballistic
109 | Star, Purple, Homing
110 | Star, Red, Ballistic
111 | Star, Red, Homing
112 | Star, White, Ballistic
113 | Star, White, Homing
114 | Star, Yellow, Ballistic
115 | Star, Yellow, Homing


_________________
.
------------------------------------- The Amethyst Dragon -------------------------------------
Creator of Aenea | Custom Content Maker | Dungeon Master | Builder | Scripter | Writer | Player | Sleepless
The Amethyst Dragon
The Amethyst Dragon
Ludicrous Level
Ludicrous Level

. : Creator of Aenea / Dungeon Master
Male Number of posts : 7839
Age : 43
Location : probably on the computer or wrangling his offspring
NWN Username : amethystdragon
DM Name : The Amethyst Dragon
Time Zone : GMT - 6:00 (Wisconsin)
Registration date : 2008-06-02

View user profile http://www.amethyst-dragon.com/nwn

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Opinion on possible Magic Missile change? Empty Re: Opinion on possible Magic Missile change?

Post by Eric of Atrophy on Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:58 am

Again, I say it - why would you play anywhere else? The Amethyst Dragon once again delivers the goods!
Eric of Atrophy
Eric of Atrophy
Seriously Epic Level
Seriously Epic Level

. : Dungeon Master
Male Number of posts : 3951
Age : 46
Location : Kea'au, HI, USA
Main Character :
The Vault of Atrophy
NWN Username : atrophied_eric
DM Name : Dungeon Mistress Anaurra Lide
Time Zone : GMT - 10:00 EST (We have our own time zone!)
Registration date : 2008-06-06

View user profile http://myanimelist.net/profile/Eric_of_Atrophy

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Opinion on possible Magic Missile change? Empty Re: Opinion on possible Magic Missile change?

Post by Sponsored content


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