Complaint about maze puzzles

I'm not sure where to post this so I'm posting it here.

I was having a blast until recently in Aenea. I played Wurren, the nude, tiger-headed, why-aren't-you-scared-of-me-I'm-a-scary-rakshasa, druid. Even though this was only my second PW ever, I was very impressed by the richness and detail of the world. I enjoyed travelling around, seeing the sights, and I really enjoyed interacting with the amazingly friendly and helpful other players. I only had/ have one problem, but it's a major one.

The first maze "puzzle" I encountered was for the Wanderer's amulet. Given that this was related to the god of travel and wandering, it made sense that this would require wandering around yourself to find the correct path. I thought that puzzle was appropriate, in context, and added to the richness of the world. The fact that hung out with me himself was icing on the cake. I liked that nobody just gave me the solution as I enjoyed figuring it out on my own. The maze was small, and it didn't take me long to solve it.

The second time I encountered this puzzle was for the League. The Trial of Wits was anything but. I think it should be more accurately called the Trial of Patience, as it certainly tried mine. Upon seeing the maze, and realizing what I had to do, my heart sank. I couldn't bypass it, there was no quick solution, the ONLY thing I could do was plod through it. There was no danger, no combat, nothing risky whatsoever to get my blood flowing or adrenaline pumping. The minor damage for a wrong guess is irrelevant, as regeneration or healing negates it. Since there's no time pressure or monster chasing you, you have all the time in the world to heal, so the damage only served to move the maze from irritating to annoying. There was no intelligence or mental agility required here, nothing to actually challenge you in any way. The whole point of the maze is one of simple guesswork, and as such a pointless waste of time. It reminded me of the old child's game Simon. The whole point of the maze was simply trial-and-error, as you slowly memorize the correct path through the maze. I was bored before I even started, and halfway through I asked another player for the solution as I find watching paint dry to be more stimulating.

The next time I encountered something similar was in Castle Greyhawk I believe. While not exactly the same, the trial-and-error aspect brought back tiresome memories of the Trial of Wits, and while there was combat here, I was already too irritated to care. I quaffed some invis potions, and just kept running forward bypassing everything until a boss near the end(?) killed me. I never went back.

The fourth time was under a crypt somewhere, with a sarcophagus surrounded by a checkerboard. Once again you have to guess which way to go. Once again you're sent back to the beginning for a wrong guess. Once again you must plod through a pointless maze whose only purpose seems to be to waste time. Once again you must suffer ennui, as you think this will never ever ever ever reach an end. When I got to the end and killed the monster, who wasn't all that challenging at my level, I was very disappointed. The monster didn't last nearly long enough for my tastes. I hadn't been able to expend nearly enough anger on it, and wished that I could bring it back to life, so I could kill it a few more times to vent my frustration over the pointlessness of the checkerboard. I wanted to punch something.

The fifth time was by far the worst. Underneath some crypt in the desert, was a level with fire trolls. While as a longtime D&D player I can appreciate your decision to require trolls take full damage from fire or acid to kill, I think it tends to make combat less exciting, not more. Having to fight literally dozens of fire trolls made me glad that I was a shifter and had unlimited acid breath. A minor irritation, but no more. After that though was the most unholy of foul mazes I had yet seen in Aenea. It was worse than all the other mazes combined. I couldn't BELIEVE that this existed, that you actually expected us to go through this, that you thought we would enjoy it.

I asked everyone online if they had the solution, because there was no way this could be real. Nobody did. I scanned the forum for answers, and found none. I went back and again asked if anybody had the solution. Nope. I offered to have a sex change to a woman so somebody could impregnate me just so I could offer them my firstborn as payment for a solution. Nothing. I had been everywhere, seen everything. This was the last place to explore I thought, so I felt I had no choice but to proceed.

The next two hours were very painful, and very unhappy ones. Fortunately I had had the foresight to buy a rod that drops little flames to trace your steps. Even though it had 50 charges IIRC, I used the whole thing up in the maze, and still had to use other markers to trace my path through it. I have a piece of paper here with the 71(!) correct steps needed to get through the maze. Going through that maze was a very unpleasant experience, and is not something I care to ever repeat.

The level after that had yet another annoyance. A chasm separated two sections, with no jump point or other way across. After the trolls and the maze I was already royally pissed. If I hadn't had a jumper's amulet, I would have been incensed. But there was still more. After the trolls, and the maze, and the uncrossable cavern, I finally came to the "payoff" for the whole dungeon. An area with I think not one, but two bosses. I'm not sure though, because I wasn't alone. Two other players were there waiting for me, and my anger flashed at how they had gotten there ahead of me, before realizing they must have had teleport markers there. As I approached them though, the bosses triggered (minus whatever the players killed before I arrived), and the players took them out.

To have gone through all that I had in the dungeon, most especially the two fucking hours on that god damned maze, only to have the players arrive and steal my thunder, my "reward" for it all... I can only hope you, the reader, can guess at how outraged and screwed I felt at that moment. The maze wasn't made with malicious intent, the players weren't there to screw me over, but nonetheless that's how I felt. I felt cheated and betrayed, and worse because I now that none of it was intentional. The players were trying to roleplay, but I just couldn't take it. I told them I had to go, logged off, and haven't logged on to the server or the forum until now. That was over a month ago.

At first I wanted to wait a few days before posting on the forum, as I didn't want to post while angry. Then I had some computer problems as my firewall was hacked, and I've spent some considerable time dealing with that.

The purpose of my post is simply to let you know, , about an aspect of your game that I find exceedingly unpleasant. I don't know how other players feel about the mazes, they can post what they think. Perhaps it's just me, and I'm the only one who really doesn't like them. I can't say. From a technical viewpoint, I can appreciate the tremendous amount of time and effort you must have spent in creating theses mazes. All the scripting and coding to affect each turn the player makes is no small task. I also bear in mind that this is your world, your creation, and you can do whatever the hell you want. I also certainly don't expect you to drop everything and change your whole world around just because one player didn't like something (even if they REALLY didn't like something). I do hope though that you will bear it in mind, so that if you were planning on adding more mazes to your world, you at least might think twice before doing so.

I'm also a believer in the idea that a person doesn't have the right to just complain about something, unless they can offer a viable solution. As such, here are some ideas on my part to help mitigate the drawbacks as I see them.

1) Trial of Wits - merge this with the other Trial. Give players the choice of which path to take to the finish. On the left a maze, good for patient, weak, or cautious players. On the right a lava flow, with some demon princes to fight, good for strong, impatient, or bold players. This gives players a choice of which path to take, and people always enjoy the freedom of having choices.

2) Castle Greyhawk - remove the puzzle aspect of the gates. Have high DC locks on them, so that pure rogues can pick them, but everybody else will have to bash through them. The long bashing time will ensure that they will wind up fighting the skellies in each section without the annoyance of constantly popping back to the beginning over and over. My memory is fuzzy now on exactly what puzzles the castle had, just that I didn't like it at all.

3) Checkerboard and mondo maze - My preference would be to eliminate them completely but, failing that, at least provide an alternative option, something, ANYTHING to allow the players to bypass them. Let them give magic items, pay tons of gold, take xp hits, anything costly to let player buy their way past. Or perhaps you could have a shortcut guarded by a riddle or powerful boss, so that plodding through the maze is the last resort for those unable to get past the other challenge. Great risks yield great rewards, so the great reward of saving two hours of life wasted can be guarded by a great risk. How about a riddle that drains a full level for each wrong guess? You need something there for those of us who want to go postal after dozing through these mazes.

As much as I hated the mazes, I hope that I can spare others the agony I went through. The whole experience of my last session caused such burnout that I haven't been back since. I may want to eventually, but I needed to express my frustration and loathing for trial-and-error tasks that do nothing but kill time first.

I gotta concur with the sentiment of the mondo maze. The trial of wits, I agree too that it's more of a trial of (trying) one's patience, and could be redone to be more of a true trial of wits, but isn't as horrid as the mondo maze. Even with the 'clue' item findable (well, somewhat, I never found it myself until just a few months ago), the process is tedious to the extreme, and it's one of the few areas that can tank my FPS almost instantly.

A rework would definitely be nice.

I, too, can concur with the sentiment that the "trial and error" mazes get very boring and very frustrating if they are not also very *short*.

While I did not quite have the negative experience that Aerodolth had, it was bad enough to motivate me to write each and every solution down and save it in a place I would NEVER lose it.... so that I would never.... ever... have to solve it again. The trackless path and trial of wits, i really didnt mind so much... they were short enough to be tolerable... and i get the same feeling from Aerodolth's post... that they were tolerable, but annoying.

The pyramid maze is important for a "special" quest, so I can also handle that time investiture (even though I wish it was a little shorter, or there was some sort of clue about which way to go at each square).... but I agree 100% the boss at the end should be tougher.... not epic level, hit-me-so-hard-my-unborn-children-feel-it, but at leats be able to take a few hundred more hps of punishment before going down.

The one under the desert ruins is outrageously long.... beyond intolerable... and to be frank... although there is a unique reward at the end... it pales in comparison to the time investment... and the CR of the bosses. Not to mention that maze does, as manny mentioned, absolutely murder the FPS of the game unless you rotate your camera to directly above your PC.

As for the teleport/farming issue.... there is only one solution.... faster respawns.... other options will create worse problems.

There's a puzzle at Castle Greyskull? Oh. Ra Cha Chongo and I went there as Miow and Vizzini and couldn't even really figure out that there was a puzzle... just doors that were un pickable and un disintegratable, with no indication of what was going on. We got confused and dejected and left. I thought maybe it was like that place with the demon powered by those weird devices... specific key... that I got from a DM spawned creature. Thought maybe you had to end up in some sort of event to get a key to get in.
Checkerboard? Is it in the middle of some woods? This is another one where we left because we couldn't figure out that it was supposed to do anything. I like to think we're reasonably intelligent people playing reasonably intelligent characters, so perhaps these ought to be made a wee bit more obvious.

Trolls- hatehatehate them. They take forever to kill for a pittance of XP if you're above maybe 10 levels (unless you're a shifter and get to be the wyrmling I s'pose). Miow is 27th and it still takes her like 10 rl minutes to go through a spawn... for 4 xp apiece. Someone, perhaps Mr. Yeisley? told me that trolls used to have bonus XP but when the XP tables were reworked, that evaporated.

The mazes in general, I really don't like. Agree that the wanderer maze isn't that bad. But the rest, tbh, the first couple of times I encountered one I tried to solve it on my own and eventually got frustrated and waited for RCC to go solve it with one of his characters. (He likes these puzzles and manages to do them in minutes each time. Perhaps he and share this quirk, and thus don't get why most of the rest of us really don't like them ) About the third time I found one, I didn't even bother to try. I felt slightly guilty, but just no. I just groaned and asked someone for a solution. If they just zapped you, or just zapped you and put you back to the previous square, or SOMETHING, it wouldn't be so bad, but getting blipped back to the beginning if you guess wrong or misclick b/c your laptop touchpad sucks... howling ensues.

While the mazes can be frustrating (one took me three individual log-ons to finally solve), I also have a sense of accomplishment that makes me proud that I figured them out. Still, my FPS took such a hit that I could only make the smallest of movements unless I overshot where I was trying to move to..

I had not realized the few mazes were that frustrating. Perhaps some changes are in order for those areas.

I can see how the time necessary to get through them (especially the one under the burning sands of the Calithian Desert) could be frustrating. I'll probably end up doing a combination change on that one (keep it, but make it shorter and reward you with a "maze map" item that instantly shunts you through it after making it through the first time).

I first put in a couple of the other mazes as a mental challenge, rather than a patience challenge...how to mark out the safe route so as to not have to memorize the exact sequence...

Perhaps a way to store a permanent variable after solving it that automatically re-marks the way with the proper VC command...

The Trackless Path is a place to get lost. It's the way to reach a valley with a temple dedicated to the god of the lost (Gort). If anyone remembers that one "forest" in the original Legend of Zelda on the NES... There are clues for this one hidden on the main pages of the website for those that look very closely, starting with the main page and moving down the main menu.

I have no plans of adding more mazes, as I figured 3-4 is enough for the entire game world...they lose the novelty if they are the only mental challenge.

heh... I remember something about that forest, not much though other than it was a pain when I had to pass through it for whatever reason....

And as for looking at the website for the clues... guh, I know the two solutions to the path, but can't figure out what 'clues' are on the website

There are ways to make the invisible.... visible.

I know already wieghed in on this one but I figured I'd add my own views...

Let me start by saying I like puzzles and mazes. But only when they involve some form of intelligence to solve. Mazes that are purely random guessing are generally boring and a general waste of my fun-time. So if those type are to exisit they should be short and have a good reason for being there.

On the puzzles here in Aenea, each has somthing redeeming about it.
The Wanderers path was actually the most frustrating for me, because at the time I could find no way of marking my path. Dropped items disappeared before I could finish it, and I hadn't found the wand iirc only lasts till you leave the screen. Redemption comes in finding out there are hints on the homepage. After finding that out I was through to the valley in minutes.
If you can't find the hints, try casting see invisible....

The trial of wits simply isn't. Its a test of patience or perhaps if you talk to the old guy a test of your exploration skills. However, since it doesn't seem like you get a do over for the quest, it would be nice to be able to find out what item you might need to make it easier. With said item I made it through the maze much less painfully than without but it is still just trial and error.

I found the same item very helpful for the 'checkerboard' maze. Same thoughts here, there is writing on the wall but I'm pretty sure it offers no clues to get through, perhaps it should. Maybe even a mathmatical sequence or some such.

Ahh the lovely searing sands... As I aproached it for the first time I had other longtime players telling me tales of dread spending multiple Realtime days of play to get through it. I was fortunate enough to find the clue piece for it and figure out how to decipher the clue, a little graph paper later and I was through. With the clue, it wasn't too terribly time consuming. It took time to be sure, but at least it was time spent solving a puzzle not just wandering blindly around. (once I found my way through I made sure to mark the area so I would never have to do it again)
About the broken bridge there: As an update a jump point has been put in where there wasnt one before which is very helpful.

Greyskull really isnt all that bad imho. After finding your way across the room through the doors there are only so many choices to make. Its not terribly time consuming. and there is a way to bypass it once you've done it. (with teleport marks again)

What makes them all seem worse I think is having done the others. You get there and think "Not again!"

I played a mod once that used alot of puzzles as well, the author had created several classic logic puzzles in NWN form that the character had to solve. It was difficult and time consuming, but at least it got you thinking and wasn't boring. I wish I could remember the name of it to reference here...

As for improvements, I like the idea of a 'tag' that lets the game know wif youve completed it before and gives you a faster way through.

And perhaps the clue to the trackless path could be moved to somewhere in game. It kinda kills the mood if you have to go to the web to solve a puzzle ingame. Maybe have the oldman hint to an area where you could find the first clue. and then another and so on. So you actually have to wander a little to solve the path.


TROLLS!!! Yup I hate em. I love the idea of them regening and needing fire or acid to kill. But I have lvl 40 chars who only have 1d4 acid damage it takes me 5 minutes to go through 1 spawn of cinder trolls... Seems a little out of balance to me. Also they are vulnerable to some spells like wail of the banshee which works wonders on them, but things like dev crit and vorpal weapons don't do anything to them. Its been around 20 years since I played Pnp, it was just Ad&D then, but we always took it that aci or fire weapons cauterized the trolls wounds so they couldn't regen.

Could that mod have been the Twilight Trilogy (er, well, parts 1 and 2, no part 3 ever released).

Twighlight was one of my favorite mods. It very well could have been. The puzzle that tickled me most to see in game was the Tower of Brahma puzzle.


Tower of Hanoi puzzle

Yup, that was Twilight (or midnight forget which one the puzzles were in). Too bad the 3rd part was never made. That was one of the first NWN mods I played.

It strikes me that trolls wouldnt be nearly so bad if they were "vulnerable" against fire and acid.... (and troll variants were vulnerable against their respective weaknesses).

Make them take double damage from it.... so that 1d4 has a bigger impact.

Offering a "puzzle solved" tag doesn't address the issue. The problem is going through in the first place, not what happens after. As several have already indicated, they immediately make a teleport mark so they don't ever have to do the puzzle again. Even without the mark, they know the solution, have written it down, so that if by some means they had to do it again, it wouldn't take nearly as long.

The problem is that these aren't optional puzzles, side quests that can be skipped without the slightest loss. If you want to join the League, you have to do the Trial of Wits. If you want to take part in the major quest, you have to do the checkerboard. Daveyeisley metioned some unique reward for the mondo maze... I never found out what it was.

Again, I would like to strongly recommend an alternate means of bypassing these mazes. Monsters to fight, a riddle, a price to pay... something. Anything. I would gladly take permanent ability loss, level drain, anything to not have to do mazes. I was unaware there were any clues for these puzzles and had to solve them the long, hard, boring way.

The issue is somewhat moot for me, since I've now already been through them. But the memory of how unpleasant they were for me remains, and knowing they're still out there causing anguish for other players makes me want to do what I can to see them ended, or modified. My suggestion would be a combat alternative, a shortcut guarded by very powerful foes which, while it might take some time, would be infinitely more exciting than plodding through a game of Simon. Honestly, why can't people fly, jump, climb, polymorph, or magically Jump past these things?

The Wanderer's maze was a little hard at first, but after another player gave the smallest of hints by mentioning "map pins", I quickly solved it. I have no problem with that maze since, as I said, it perfectly suits the god of wandering. There is no obvious help for the other mazes though. As for the Zelda forest, I remember the even older text adventures, with the maze of "twisty little passages, all alike."

I mentioned trolls because the amount of time required to kill them is by no means commensurate with the payoff. They drop no loot and give no xp. I find they take too long as it is as a wyrmling, I can't imagine how long it takes other players with a mere 1d4 weapon acid per round, or why they would even bother. I stopped fighting trolls altogether and just ran away whenever I saw them, since there was no point in fighting them. I mentioned the cinder trolls above because there were so many of them I was surrounded and couldn't flee.

I'm trying hard to keep any tone of anger or rancor from my posts. I know this is a free game provided after countless years of work and sweat on your part, and there is nothing forcing me to play, which indeed I stopped doing for a month. I just... well, I guess I've had my say.

I know, from a time-constraint perspective, I personally don't like the mazes just because I sometimes play for a few minutes at a pop, and mazes can be a terrible time investment. Hey, ok, I can log on, kill some goblins, log off - that's fine, that's my bag, baby. But log on, and get a few steps into the trial of wits (not to mention a reset looming overhead) - that's ... icky.

I hadn't even thought of that. Getting partway through and then having a reset would certainly suck.

Yup, yup! Definitely sucks, no doubt about it!

Trial of Wits turned mega-easy once I remembered, "Wait, I can make my own map markers, what the hell am I doing all this memorizing for!", rofl. If any of you didn't realize that till now, roflmao.

Well that's certainly a nice attitude to show towards other players who may not be 100% familiar with all of NWN's tidbits.

Map pins don't help with the incredible frustration of having to start the whole thing over any time you guess wrong or should you misclick. Even if you've map pinned or written down directions as you figure them out, it takes at least me for-ev-er to retrace my steps, very carefully making sure to orient myself in the right direction and click on the right transition. That's what makes it suck for me. It's not fun or entertaining, it's not what I want to be doing in my limited playtime. If it were like a "regular" maze where if you guess wrong you go in circles or just meet a dead and and have to backtrack to your last choice, it'd be much different.

True... too bad the automap makes normal mazes a bit easy...

Although, that just made me think of another 'maze' from a singplayer module, Almraiven. It wasn't so much a maze, but you had to get from one end of an area to another without encountering a medusa. It was a cut-scene type of maze though. You'd "move" from one intersection to another via the dialogue. Each 'move' you could go north, south, ect, and the medusa would get a move as well. You had to find a key for the door as well. The key was on a statue (randomized). When you came to a intersection with a statue, it took a "move" to search the statue for the key, during which the medusa got to move a space.

While that exact setup might not work for Aenea very well at all.... perhaps with say, the mondo-maze, perhaps making it all in (the) corridors ( ) instead of one big room, it could be done where if you took a wrong way, you'd run into something really nasty to fight. The door behind you would slam shut so you'd have to fight. Making it all corridors and doors too instead of one huge honking room would help the FPS issue of that area as well.

The other way... would be a ceiling placeable... something that just shows as a blackout on the map.... ... so it could be tunnels.... hmm.. going to go look to see if anything does this...

Or.. I have found a minimap auto clearer script in the Bioware Forums... Created by and credited to DragonWR12LB and Fester Pot ::

This script placed in a area heartbeat slot will clear the minimap every second....

int GetIsPCInArea(object oArea = OBJECT_SELF)
{
// this is a fast way to check for players without using a loop
object o = GetFirstObjectInArea(oArea);
if(!GetIsPC(o)) o = GetNearestCreature(CREATURE_TYPE_PLAYER_CHAR,PLAYER_CHAR_IS_PC,o);
return (GetIsPC(o);
}
void AreaMazeHeartBeat(object oArea)
{
//Quit if there isn't a PC in the area.
if(!GetIsPCInArea(oArea))
return;
object oPC = GetFirstObjectInArea(oArea);
while(oPC != OBJECT_INVALID)
{
if(GetIsPC(oPC) == TRUE)
{
DelayCommand(0.0, ExploreAreaForPlayer(oArea, oPC, FALSE));
DelayCommand(1.0, ExploreAreaForPlayer(oArea, oPC, FALSE));
DelayCommand(2.0, ExploreAreaForPlayer(oArea, oPC, FALSE));
DelayCommand(3.0, ExploreAreaForPlayer(oArea, oPC, FALSE));
DelayCommand(4.0, ExploreAreaForPlayer(oArea, oPC, FALSE));
DelayCommand(5.0, ExploreAreaForPlayer(oArea, oPC, FALSE));
}
oPC = GetNextObjectInArea(oArea);
}
}
//
//
void main()
{
AreaMazeHeartBeat(OBJECT_SELF);
}

Let the record show that with a small spot of kind patient assistance, it was discovered that my Greyskull issue was apparently trying all but one of the doors in the first room.... repeatedly...

Once we were actually in there, I didn't mind the puzzles and had fun.

Duly noted!

inthecorridors wrote:Let the record show that with a small spot of kind patient assistance, it was discovered that my Greyskull issue was apparently trying all but one of the doors in the first room.... repeatedly...

Once we were actually in there, I didn't mind the puzzles and had fun.

Yah, I forgot to address that point in your post. I think Greyskull is actually one of the better areas in Aenea... the end boss isn't nearly as challenging as the room right before him is, however..... thats something I would like to see changed.... he needs some meatshields, and he needs a buff to his offense.

Other than that, the area is fantastic imo.

Agreed about the room before the boss! I'm still excited that I didn't die in that room XP

I would love to see the trial of wits moved to a riddle, a "what if" series or a "here is this pile of junk, can you cobble something useful against blah monster or situation" -- something that requires that puddle of goo on top of your shoulders to actually get to sloshing around. Perhaps some questions based upon the many wonderful bits of lore found randomly in books.

I would love to see the trial of wits moved to a riddle, a "what if" series or a "here is this pile of junk, can you cobble something useful against blah monster or situation" -- something that requires that puddle of goo on top of your shoulders to actually get to sloshing around. Perhaps some questions based upon the many wonderful bits of lore found randomly in books.

This sounds like a good idea.. even more so if the league is open to epic pc's and above (anyone with the Epic Character Feat).. this would at least ensure some knowledge of the world... handled by responses in a dialogue, each correct answer giving an xp boost, each wrong answer giving a spawn of baddies ... ..

My, what an interesting Etched Stone Tablet Miow found this morning...

I find as an old time-y PnP DM - A little clue nearby can go a long way. Wrote trial and error mazes always tend to be a bit frustrating (That is the intended entertainment emotion of a maze - but it should be a fun kind of frustration). Etched stone tablets, little bits of notes from a previous adventure, and/or a secret door that is VERY hard to find that circumvents the whole mess are some of my old tricks for when the party is going to be trapped there forever

RustyDios wrote:Or.. I have found a minimap auto clearer script in the Bioware Forums... Created by and credited to DragonWR12LB and Fester Pot ::

This script placed in a area heartbeat slot will clear the minimap every second....

int GetIsPCInArea(object oArea = OBJECT_SELF)
{
// this is a fast way to check for players without using a loop
object o = GetFirstObjectInArea(oArea);
if(!GetIsPC(o)) o = GetNearestCreature(CREATURE_TYPE_PLAYER_CHAR,PLAYER_CHAR_IS_PC,o);
return (GetIsPC(o);
}
void AreaMazeHeartBeat(object oArea)
{
//Quit if there isn't a PC in the area.
if(!GetIsPCInArea(oArea))
return;
object oPC = GetFirstObjectInArea(oArea);
while(oPC != OBJECT_INVALID)
{
if(GetIsPC(oPC) == TRUE)
{
DelayCommand(0.0, ExploreAreaForPlayer(oArea, oPC, FALSE));
DelayCommand(1.0, ExploreAreaForPlayer(oArea, oPC, FALSE));
DelayCommand(2.0, ExploreAreaForPlayer(oArea, oPC, FALSE));
DelayCommand(3.0, ExploreAreaForPlayer(oArea, oPC, FALSE));
DelayCommand(4.0, ExploreAreaForPlayer(oArea, oPC, FALSE));
DelayCommand(5.0, ExploreAreaForPlayer(oArea, oPC, FALSE));
}
oPC = GetNextObjectInArea(oArea);
}
}
//
//
void main()
{
AreaMazeHeartBeat(OBJECT_SELF);
}

I was always under the impresssion that Big OnHeartbeat script = slow game. No?

I must admit the Trial of Wits was a bit mind numbing. I had already read this thread, and once I entered it and recalled these posts, I cooked some dinner (20min) and ate it all while playing before being able to finish this maze.

And the kicker for me was that there was very little my PC could purchase from the League that would improve his standing, even though he has near max UMD.

Please consider opening all the League shops to all classes, allowing the various restrictions on the items themselves to prevent exploits. And UMD does have it's own costs for investments.

And please reconsider this maze, as Transferance, jumping, or even climbing with the aid of a rope seemed to offer possible solutions. And this would seem to be the kind of success such a test is meant to discover.

The maze under the caithia desert is something in a class of it's own. It's not just frustrating. It's not just infuriating. This is just plain inhumanity. That's the only thing I can come up with to describe this maze. I thought the trial of wits was bad enough. But I was wrong. This is at least ten times worse.
Now while the trial of wits was not a straight forward maze as the one under the Calithia desert is, this is still just REDICULOUS. The amount of steps to get to the end (and from what I'm hearing, is a disappointing end at that)is in no way worth almost any reward or ending that I can think of or even imagine.
There are 71 steps required to get to the end of the "maze" underneath the calithia desert. I haven't found the "clue" that is being mentioned (and I am going to venture to guess that this would be a ton easier than it currently is without this clue) but it's taken me approximately five hours to get just under 40 steps solved. I'd suggest putting a solution SOMEWHERE so that we can at least get through this with minimal problems. The threat of missing one instruction and restarting WITH the entire thing mapped out is bad enough, let alone restarting for each error in figuring out the maze without even the slightest clue as to how to get to the end. each time I retrace my steps, it currently (at 35ish steps so far) takes me about 2-3 mins to get back to the front to make one more guess.
Granted, I got smart after the trial of wits and started listing in my journal (custom journal entries rule) the exact directions by keeping my camera faced above me and the compass facing a single direction. (which also cuts down on the FPS hit that the massive room generates) while I understand the purpose of making it "no teleport," it does cause a lot of frustration that every time I make a signle mistake, I restart from the beginning.
the best solution I can come up with is adding a "checkpoint" every 10-15 steps or so. this removes a large amount of the frustration by not having the restart the ENTIRE thing, but only the most recent portion of it.

And believe me, I'll gladly post my method for getting through this damned maze with all of the directions if it will save even ONE person from this frustration. Assuming, that I'm allowed to do so that is.

I have had the solution to that one recorded for over a year... (I know where the stone tablet is now, but I did not find it before I spend 3 real days slogging thru that maze)... I have never posted or handed out the solution to anyone because no matter how aggravating and rediculous the challenge is, giving a complete solution ruins the area. I would suggest perhaps giving folks clues when they get frustrated, or maybe give them the next 5 or 6 steps.... but I would definitely avoid giving out the whole thing.

As for the stone tablet, it basically solves the problem if you read it properly. To find it, be sure to *thoroughly* search everything in the room above the maze.

I found the tablet now. Although it does have the answer to the puzzle on it, it's so disorienting (and besides that, it goes against the path I've recorded) that it doesn't make much sense.

evilkittenofdoom wrote:I found the tablet now. Although it does have the answer to the puzzle on it, it's so disorienting (and besides that, it goes against the path I've recorded) that it doesn't make much sense.

I hear laughing to himself... evil git that he is.

The tablet does indeed have the solution. Read it carefully. Read the background story, too. Then write down the path, and re-read the tablet. There is a clue that will help it all make sense.

Meh. After reincarnation I lost the tablet and the ability to get there. Otherwise, I'd take another look at the tablet and my list to see how they go together. Oh well. I'll do that once I've ascended. THEN I'll explore the world and demolish foes and all that whatnot. Slay the dragon, save the girl etc. etc. (Not mind you, that's not possible, let alone allowed )

Currently, I'm trying a slightly different approach to leveling than the last time. Preferrably with fewer beholder casualties... I think I floored over 1000 of those things to get to 40. Probably far more than that.

Anywaysm that's not the point. We'll see how this "map" does and then I'll say my piece when I get to the end. And god the end of that map better be worth it... I don;t know what i'll do if it isnt...

evilkittenofdoom wrote:Meh. After reincarnation I lost the tablet and the ability to get there. Otherwise, I'd take another look at the tablet and my list to see how they go together. Oh well. I'll do that once I've ascended. THEN I'll explore the world and demolish foes and all that whatnot. Slay the dragon, save the girl etc. etc. (Not mind you, that's not possible, let alone allowed )

Currently, I'm trying a slightly different approach to leveling than the last time. Preferrably with fewer beholder casualties... I think I floored over 1000 of those things to get to 40. Probably far more than that.

Anywaysm that's not the point. We'll see how this "map" does and then I'll say my piece when I get to the end. And god the end of that map better be worth it... I don;t know what i'll do if it isnt...

In all honesty... and not to disparage 's work... but I don't feel that the content that lies beyond that maze is quite sufficient reward for the effort involved in solving the maze. Its neat content, dont get me wrong... very neat... but either it needs to be easier to get to, or the rewards need a bump. Still, its a cool area. I go back there fairly frequently.

Ye gods. The trial of wits. Ye gods.

This is not fun. At all.
EDIT: Yeaaah. I got another seven steps with the help of another player, but I just quit because I can't do this anymore, it's so.. pointless and annoying.