Not Used: Shapestealer semiclass?

I think it would work, myself. Probably should wait for The Amethyst Dragon's input, though.. <<

I'd have to say I'm not too hot on the proposed shapes, particularly elementals, outsides, undead, and dragons. Those shapes are available to druids (dragon and elemental) and shifters (dragon, construct, outsider) at higher levels (elementals 18 druid, everything else epic level shifter with 25 through 30 base wisom)...

Allowing a level 10 character to theoretically be able to get the same doesn't seem quite right to me.

Well, if you made it into a prestige class and spread it out, along with the occasional extra feat(or not!), it could be more even, with the character having to take another ten levels. I don't see how this is giving characters more power than, say... Golem builders, since the save would pretty much be based on HD, yeah? So it's not too overpowered. Besides, shifters, mechanics wise, really don't have that much going for them.. And there are things that can steal shapes that aren't necessarily nature-based, after all.

A 20 would always be a success though. I found the same quirk with MotMs. Even if monster's roll was much higher than my MotM's, that I could just keep trying and trying would induce a 20 roll eventually.

Shifter mechanics do have some draw backs mechanics wise, but I do not see that as a good reason to give their top, highest requirement abilities to a semiclass achievable by a 10th level character.

The general idea I like, but it may be better to have them as an expansion upon the already present shifter prestige class than make a semiclass or another prestige class that's essentially "shifter".

Sounds rather like a script set I found on the vault once upon a time ago. It was a rewrite of the Shifter prestige class (and also the wildshaping abilities of Druids) that made it more in line with PnP rules and had been added to a PW that I used to play on (at my instigation, actually - they'd banned dragonshape and I felt they needed something to make up for that ). I went looking for it on the vault just now but couldn't find it; pretty sure it's still somewhere on my computer though.

Basically, the way it worked was a DM (or script) gives the Druid a widget at 5th lv called a study tool, which let you attempt to "study" any creature (except for PCs, DMs, and creatures that can wear pants, like the new orcs and goblins). If your total Druid + Shifter levels were greater than the target's HD, and you met the appropriate level requirements for size and type, you got another widget in your inventory with the same name as the creature. Using that widget changed your appearance to the creature's, gave you appropriate creature weapons and a skin that approximated the creature's abilities and immunities (though, since you weren't technichally polymorphed, ability scores could only be raised to a max. of +12; on the up side, this also meant that all of your equipment still functioned), and then the system would give you further widgets to utilize the creature's powers (i.e., eye rays, breath weapon, fear aura, etc.). All in all a rather fun system to use (it's more entertaining than you'd think to turn into mice and oozes and 15 foot tall crabs), but at the same time it can be a real pain in the ass (fills you inventory fast and plays absolute hell with PC skins).

I had considered suggesting it for Aenea when I first started, but I came to feel it would probably be overpowered in this world (demi-liches with Monk levels = 5 10d6 punches {plus gloves} and immune to almost everything) so I decided to keep a lid on it. If (or anyone else, for that matter) is really all that interested I don't mind going through the vault a little more thoroughly, or at least going through my computer and finding the script/ haks/ demo mod.

I know that system. The one aspect I never liked about it was that the abilities such as rays and such were underpowered, static 'cast spell" properties off the widgets.

A watered down version one could just play a shifter....but ad could expand on the available shapes bout a couple dozen. But that might be more work though

On the upper idea...i think that it should be limited to living humanoid or near humanoid shapes. This would limit folks taking greyskulls form and other nonesuch sillyness.

It would be cool if we could get a doppleganger base appearance until you shifted into some other form and if it was a human/elf/dwarf/whatnot...armor and clothing equipped would then show up allowing diversity.

Just my thoughts on the idea

hmm...i bet i could make a shifter type toon that could pass as a doppleganger for rp purposes heh heh

Kefrem wrote:A watered down version one could just play a shifter....but ad could expand on the available shapes bout a couple dozen. But that might be more work though

On the upper idea...i think that it should be limited to living humanoid or near humanoid shapes. This would limit folks taking greyskulls form and other nonesuch sillyness.

It would be cool if we could get a doppleganger base appearance until you shifted into some other form and if it was a human/elf/dwarf/whatnot...armor and clothing equipped would then show up allowing diversity.

Just my thoughts on the idea

hmm...i bet i could make a shifter type toon that could pass as a doppleganger for rp purposes heh heh

That'd be where my original idea came from, yep.

Some sort of Aenea version of RaCha's idea would probably work. That or restrict it to shifters or higher-level druids.

Though, more shape-power or variety would also help, honesly.

One of my main deterrants for playing a shifter...is the fact they can turn into undead. Makes it seem more like just a wizard with polymorph self instead of a true shapeshifter like dopplegangers are/were.

Well.. risen shape is one of their strongest forms, sadly.