Meteor Swarm

The upgrade to this spell has help a lot with making it more attactive, but I feel its not quite
where it should be. Mainly the 1/2 fire, 1/2 bludgeon dmg with a reflex for half I think nerfs its
overall value.

If there must be a physical dmg component, I suggest making it a static 3d8 bludgeoning
dmg on a touch attack, with no save allowed.

If the touch attack hits, then the rest of the fire damage would also be inflicted,
with no save.

If the touch attack misses, then the target would totally avoid the bludgeoning and
be given a reflex save for half against the rest of the fire damage.

Just in case spells get worked on anytime soon, I wanted to bump this to stay close to the Gorgon Blast Idea.

This spell is also apparently not harming objects in the area. If its gonna hit my party, I think it should break/burn stuff

Meteor Swarm is apparently no longer part of the school of evocation. Crideas was being struck by the spell despite having immunity to the school.

That's odd.

Just checked the spells.2da file, and it's an evocation spell.

Looking in the script itself...1d8 damage per caster level, up to 30d8. There's a reflex save for 1/2 (big falling, fire-engulfed rocks), after which the damage is evenly split. 50% is applied as bludgeoning damage (no spell resistance vs. getting hit with a big rock), 50% goes through a spell resistance check before applying as fire damage (the fire around them is magical).

Ah, I see why it's not hitting non-creatures like it's supposed to. By default, the GetFirstObjectInShape function targets only creatures unless you specifically tell it otherwise. I'll be changing that for the next time I put an update to the game module on the server, so it'll also damage placeable objects (just because I feel like it, it still won't affect doors).

While not my preference for this spell itself, I do like the idea of "magically hurling a giant flaming rock down onto a target". I think I might just make a single-target version of the spell that does an attack roll instead of a reflex save (if I can rework a copy of the visual effect to bring down only a single meteor right on a targeted creature/placeable).

Keep in mind there is no attack roll for that falling rock, though. It always hits.... because it is magically guided.... hence the reflex save rather than a touch attack.

Evocation also does not work with real, physical objects... it creates effects from nothing.... so they are inherently magical. Conjuration is a different story.... but big rocks made by an evocation spell would fizzle if they failed to penetrate spell resistance, or stuck a target that was immune.

I think spell resistance and immunity should apply to the bludgeoning damage because it is possible to stop the meteors from 'locking on', making them miss totally. Otherwise, I think there should be an attack roll but no save, as I suggested above...

I was pondering the mechanics of the spell today... I do that sometimes

The current mechanics bother me... not nearly as much as the default... but still... and I hadn't been able to put my finger on exactly why...

The more I think about how the spell works, what it was designed to do, etc... the more I cannot escape how similar it is to Ice Storm.

Boulders instead of huge icicles, fire instead of cold.... but the rest is pretty much analogous.... and yet... the mechanics dont express that symmetry at all.... and I think they really should, which is why it bothers me.

Meteor Swarm smacks of being a 9th level variant of ice storm... ice storm is probably the best 4th level attack spell in the game. Meteor Swarm is, on the other hand, not the best choice for attack spells at 9th level.

The saving throw, and half of the damage being physical (rather than just a few dice of physical), and the inexplicable limitation that the spell must be centered on the caster all hamstring it.

Why not try making Meteor Swarm a fire-based variant of Ice Storm... make it only 3d8 or 5d8 of bludgeoning, remove the save, have the fire damage scale up to 25d8, and let it be cast at medium range?

If we try those things, and it seems overpowered or broken, it can be changed back... but I am pretty confident that wont be the case.

Hmmm ... dave's mindthink bears fruit!

I bet Dave can cast that spell in real life.

I admit I spend more time than is technically sane thinking about spells. Especially 9th level spells.

I just remember how disappointed I was to finally reach 17th level and gain access only to find that, at the time, there were no custom Aenea 9th level spells and out of the defaults, the only good ones were Mord's, Bigby's, Greater Spell Mantle, Wail of the Banshee, and sometimes Black Blade or Dominate Monster (mainly only against weaker enemies which can be defeated easily with lower level spells).

Energy Drain, Weird, Gate, Summon Creature IX, Power Word:Kill, Meteor Swarm, and Shapechange were all lackluster in some way

Telemus Arcanum is a solid addition, which aside from needing a slight damage boost (imo), is an excellent single target damage spell.

For almost 2 years now, Crideas's 9th level spell slots have been used for mainly Mord's, Bigby's, and Wail as far as 9th level spells go.

Occaisionally I will slot black blade or greater spell mantle... but the rest of the 9th level spells have gone mostly unused... and the reason is that for offense, metamagically enhanced lower level spells have been more useful. I have probably cast more Silent Horrid Wiltings and Silent Sunbursts than any 9th level spell except maybe Wail.

I really would just like to see most of the 9th level spells have some 'juice' that make them attractive to cast over lower level spells. Meteor Swarm is supposed to be the King of Kaboom as far as non-epic magic. I don't feel it fits that bill in its current state (though it is a vast improvement over the default).

If meteor swarm and ice storm shared the same symmetry mechanically that they do in effect and appearance I think that meteor swarm would finally claim its intended spot as the Baddest of the Bad for Boom at 9th level.

I'm liking the Meteor Swarm/ Ice Storm comparison, it makes sense to me.

As far as other 9th level spells go, I think Gate could be a fun one to bump up in terms of utility. A scaling monster that stays useful up to 40th, perhaps even being able to chose the plane it comes from, would go a long way I think. Also, maybe could give the spell an alternate effect; one that summons a "Wanderer's Portal Swirly-do" visual effect that allows for a full party to travel via the caster's tp points, possibly even into or out of places normally blocked from that sort of magic?

I'd have to admit - a true 'Gate' to somewhere else seems to fit the spell's name more than summoning a Balor.

But as for powerup up the creature, I'd be for giving it a few more caster levels, some more spell DC and letting it throw a few more Implosions/Destructions...

Give it a decent HP/AC boost and I'd not mind using it...

More on topic - I'm all for the proposed changes to Meteor Swarm...

I will start a new thread for the gate spell so this one can stay more for Meteor Swarm specifically.

Regarding Meteor Storm, it is sure effective against Beholders, they practically destroy themselves if they have one scroll, and if they have two it's Katy bar the door, you better hurry if you plan to get the experience.

Speaking of which, I thought Meteor storm only worked outdoors, so should it not fizzle in the Beholder lair? Or am I totally out of date, working of my old &D recollections?

Works indoors. The meteors are magically created.