Not Used: Wall Spells

I love wall of iron/stone/ice etc but could the duration of these be cut down? They currently last far too long, especially considering as the AI is not smart enough to figure out ways round the wall spells nor do they even try to attack it. Certain creatures such as dragons for example could simply just fly over in them for example. A flat turn + 1 round per 5 CL would suffice or something similar.

I agree in the spirit of the suggestion, but I think there is a slightly better way to approach it.

Yes, currently, the AI's failure to deal with walls makes them too effective.

Rather than reducing durations, I think it would be better to address the AI problem.

There was another suggestion made a while back about adding "invisible, immobile creatures" to the wall spells.

The wall spells would spawn as they do now, but on either side, in the middle of the wall, an invisible, immobile creature that is friendly to the caster would spawn. This creature would have the hitpoints of the wall, and because it is a creature, the enemies could attack it properly.

If either creature dies, the other creature and the placeable go "poof".

's got battle AI revisions on the to-do list as well, which will hopefully add in some bit that allows creatures to bash walls when they encounter them.


For the two-creature idea, I'd say make the invisible wall-critter neutral to avoid faction issues should the caster toss out an AoE that hits it.

MannyJabrielle wrote:For the two-creature idea, I'd say make the invisible wall-critter neutral to avoid faction issues should the caster toss out an AoE that hits it.

Good point

Sorry guys but this isn't PnP. In PnP wall spells are good but not overpowered because half the creatures can fly, are ethereal, teleport, shoot projectiles, or even climb over it. In a 2D CRPG they just stand there doing nothing and even attacking the wall still takes a long time. Personally I feel it cheapens things like dragons or wraiths when you use the wall spells, and even if they do bash it down you just summon another. I think maxing out at nearly 2 turns is acceptable.

Mr T wrote:Sorry guys but this isn't PnP. In PnP wall spells are good but not overpowered because half the creatures can fly, are ethereal, teleport, shoot projectiles, or even climb over it. In a 2D CRPG they just stand there doing nothing and even attacking the wall still takes a long time. Personally I feel it cheapens things like dragons or wraiths when you use the wall spells, and even if they do bash it down you just summon another. I think maxing out at nearly 2 turns is acceptable.

In case you werent aware, Aenea strives to bring NWN closer to a PnP feel. Please keep that in mind when you comment. Thanks

Half of all creatures cannot fly, go ethereal, teleport, or climb a sheer wall.

Creatures that can shoot projectiles do just fine shooting them through Aenea's wall spells.

Walls of Force will stop ethereal creatures in their tracks, and depending on thickness, normal materials can impede incorporeal creatures ability to pass through.

There is also already a suggestion in place for allowing some creatures to use flight to traverse elevations and terrain to close with a PC.

There is nothing wrong at all with summoning another wall if an existing wall is bashed down. It requires a memorized spell and an action to cast it. It consumes resources. No different than casting another Bigby's hand spell after the first expires. Thats like saying summoning a second creature after the first one dies is too powerful.

Lastly, 2 turns is not at all acceptable for a 40th level caster on a wall spell. The durations are fine. Addressing the actual problem needs to be focused on the AI (the actual cause of the problem), not the spell durations.

OK then leave it as is.

Oh apart from walls of force ethereal creatures are just fine going through material walls.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Etherealness

Sure, but ethereal creatures cannot affect the material plane, hence why my statement about material walls was directed specifically at incorporeal creatures.

For durations, I wouldn't mind seeing the durations cut. Not down to 2 turns max though. 1 turn/3 or 2 CL would be decent. That's still 10 minutes or more for a 40th level caster.

For ethreal/incorporeal creatures... would be a good thing if the mechanics could support it. I'm hard pressed to think of a work around that would allow it to function like that though. Perhaps making the wall placables not be solid, and placing a temporary trigger... if oObect entering is not incoporeal/ethereal, it gets tossed back. There's a book in game that does this, with a circle AoE. It *might* be doable for a line.

But the one problem with that is the creatures can "rubber band" into take an action before being tossed back by the effect. It would be problematic for the wall spells... and since a vast majority of baddies *aren't* ethereal or incoporeal... that particular avenue would be more harm than good.

I can't think of any NWN mechanic at the moment that would be better unfortunatley.

Ok.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Incorporeal


Perhaps 2 turns is too little. But flying dragons and incoporeal wraiths would rock. Great suggestion Manny if it could be done.

For flying dragons, there was a post somewhere in one of the forums where that was mentioned, and I *think* said he had something in mind for that.

Sigh... so we are going to play the "I can quote reference documents to prove you wrong" game?

Tiresome. Seriously.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm

Look up Incorporeal and you will find this:

An incorporeal creature can enter or pass through solid objects, but must remain adjacent to the object’s exterior, and so cannot pass entirely through an object whose space is larger than its own.

Incorporeal and Ethereal creatues would be very interesting... but they also require the balance provided by the "Ghost Touch" property. These topics have already been previously discussed in a thread related to Stealth vs. True Seeing, and the Greater Sanctuary Spell. While it would be cool, it was concluded that it would be too much work (if it could even be done at all) for too little benefit.

As for shortening spell durations, I am wondering how gameplay would be improved?