Game Mechanics - Devastating Critical

Devastating Crit is a truly awesome feat, and the pre-reqs are awesome as well. As a weapon master, I will wind up with a good portion anyway, but there is one that may be beyond me. As well as all feat pre-reqs, it requires a strength of 25. Now, I can get to 25 buffed and equipped with no problem, but no way will I ever reach 25 raw. Is the requirement for 25 raw str? If so, can I get a relevel to change my feats a little bit?

Lessee, to get 25 raw, start with 16 and use 9 of 10 ability increases in str, yep that would do it, just barely, at lvl 36 (which is about when you can get all the required feats in as well). But since I didn't start with 16 raw, and since I also need dex and int as a weapon master, and maybe a bit of constitution to survive, I sure hope it is buffed!

To my knowledge, enhanced stats do *not* count for feat pre-requisites.

25 str can be tough to get for a build that is not strength focused, true. One can easily see from the prerequisites the feat was designed to be geared for a strength-focused pure fighter build, or for a strength-primary fighter-primary build. Yes, you cannot build for strength alone and still qualify, as whirlwind attack and expertise force you to round out your stats a bit.

Something to keep in mind, devastating critical is even more powerful than the "Vorpal, DC=14" weapon property. It is a fortitude save and the DC scales with your str bonus, and the lowest save DC possible is, I believe, 17.

While a non-strength primary build could possibly squeak in and qualify for it, the DC on the save would not be as awesome as one might hope for, but even so, it is better than having a vorpal weapon... and to take it one step further... what if you *have* a vorpal weapon and get dev crit? That is *two* save or die affects per critical hit you score.

Personally I feel that the feat needs to be extremely hard to get (and should not take buffed stats into account to qualify), as it is *hands down* the most powerful feat a melee build can possibly get, and should not be open to balanced "hybrid" builds.

As it is, the feat is restricted to a certain feat progression and requires a focus on the Strength stat which makes it nigh impossible for Dex-primary builds to qualify... which is as it should be because dex grants significantly more overall benefit than strength, though strength is very very good for melee combat, though very little else.

If you still want to relevel and try to qualify, I can help with that, of course.

Ah, was not talking about complete relevel, just the last couple, as I would have chosen different feats a couple of times had I realized I would never qualify for DC. I took power attack a couple of levels ago, solely to get into the PA, Cleave, Gr. Cleave line. I think I would have been better off to take Weapon Spec, and later take Epic Weapon Spec, so that when my Weapon master triple damage critical on dice roll of 8-20 takes off, that will be 12 extra damage per hit. (with a +5 str damage, +5 pierceing damage, 1-6 damage, 5d4 various elemental damage) I will probably still be alright on damage per hit, going for 100+, if I can do 4 or so of those per round I think maybe we can take the emperor , especially if I can be behind him and add a few 5d6 sneak attacks in there. But dont tell AD until afterwards.

I just went and double checked to make sure I wasn't blowing smoke

It actually seems that it is *easier* to qualify for dev crit if you do *not* try to also qualify for the Weapon Master prestige class.

By way of explanation, weapon masters must be posesses with a certain amount of dexterity and intellect to lend the precision needed for their abilities, however, the Dev Crit feat chain is exclusively about increasing the raw power behind one's strikes to produce a handful of complimentary effects.

Sure, the two would blend *very* well together, but the prerequisites do not make one flow from the other effortlessly.

DevCrit is so powerful it's disabled or powered down on most persistent worlds, and with a reason. A Weaponmaster with a keen Kukri/Rapier/Scimitar will kill anything (critable) with about two blows. That Weapon Master and DevCrit are not really mutually exclusive, but
tough to stuff into one character is a meaningful design principle, I
think, as the combination can just be too powerful.

On Aenea, most creatures are close or identical to their pen and paper counterparts, and that means rather low saves. Even a vorpal effect with only a DC16 (from the buff spell) has a really good chance (about 50%) of killing CR20 monsters. DevCrit reaches much, much higher DCs.

So... IMHO, don't lower the prerequisites on DevCrit. It's already powerful enough as it is.

No one is suggesting lowering the prereqs, just maybe doing a relevel to take a different feat since I will not be able to meet the other requirements for dev crit.

The Great Strength Epic feats will allow you to meet the strength requirements as well possibly a little earlier if you can afford to take them.

Just to clarify, DC is 10 + 1/2 level + str mod. So by the time you qualify it's at least DC 27 i believe. I'm not sure if PnP is different to nwn in this regard.

An example in possible DC, though very likely not a WM
Half Orc,
Start with 20 Str
+ 10 Str by increasing strength every 4 levels.
+ 8 Str from 10 RDD levels
+ 12 Str from Spells/Item enhancements
+ 2/4/6 or possibly more str from Great Strength Feats
Level 40

DC for resisting a Dev Crit
10 + 20 + 21 = 51
I doubt even pure CON focused dwarves can resist that with any certainty.

Skywatcher wrote:No one is suggesting lowering the prereqs, just maybe doing a relevel to take a different feat since I will not be able to meet the other requirements for dev crit.

Sorry, then I misunderstood.

I'm all pro re-leveling. :-)

Well, in a PvP situation, I would say dev crit is definitely overpowered... but, in a PvE situation such as Aenea, it works fine. besides who else besides me has noticed how much of the enemies out there are flatly immune to crits?



That is the one *HUGE* limitation/drawback on the dev crit/ weaponmaster build. In PvE, its a nice balance. In PvP, I think allowing dev crit in its pure form would be very unpopular with a lot of players, and I would be one of them

That said, I am working on build for a weaponmaster who wields a scimitar and shield, and will be gunning for dev crit

Against the right opponents, its a great feat in PvE, makes Great Cleave much more fun to have

Sorry for being all off-topic with the mechanics discussion, Skywatcher. I will be happy to help you relevel when I catch you online.

I just added a poll to the General Chat section about possibly removing this feat...mostly after witnessing an epic battle that was supposed to be drawn out end prematurely for 1 PC in the 2nd round. And since no PC item will ever grant immunity to critical hits...

are we talking about remvoing it from NPCs, or PCs?

I dont see it being too much problem for PCs to have as most of the bosses currently could make thier saves, and some arent subject to crits.

NPCs who have it... well... as long as their strength score is not astronomical, it would be survivable.