Not Used: Behavior revision: Books

It's always bothered me that the examine action is (in most situations) equivalent to reading a book. I think that what the PC should get on examine is the title and a brief description of the contents as if flipping through or looking at the table of contents, not the text itself.

Specifically the reason this bothers me is that if a merchant has a "normal" book, there is no reason for the PC to buy it. Not quite as bad but a similar problem is that when interacting with a book in a container there's no reason to ever even pick it up.

My suggestion is to make it so that examine behaves as described above, a description of the book.

To read a book either the "use" command be the method for doing so (and what is current "use" be done via VC). Or there be a new "read" VC command.

My personal opinion is that while the current state of affairs may not be as immersive as you'd like, I appreciate its convenience

Also not sure it's worth the time and effort at current due to the various other issues which could use attention...

I see both sides. Many times have I bethunk the drawbacks to NwN ... like not being able to use an unidentified sword ... it's still a sword, doesn't matter if you know it's a "+5 vs evil oceans" or not. If your PC can use swords, you should be able to use it, you just shouldn't know that it will really, really help you out against evil oceans.

There are some things that can be immersified, and some things that cannot. Nevertheless, it is an intriguing idea.

Ohh, brainstormy moment !!

So imaging ALL books have a default "non-descript description" on examine, sure the pages are different and a few really shine out with different cover art etc..

Now when you pick up a "blank book" there is an OnAquiredItem script that reads a hidden variable/tag/identifier/randomly chooses a value as to what to fill the book with.

We then use the new itemdescription coding framework to "copy" a book from some DM-Hidden Off-Palette Merchant Room/Library to the book we just picked up.

Also all blank books have a UniquePower(ranged) property, for most books this will just show a message that you have read the book (or some other daft one-liner).. however for those "special" books we all love to use and might be getting at random this use item checks another variable (possibly even one copied over from the library?) and runs the appropriate book-spellscript-etc..... Oh and once all the random copying etc is done just the plain old examining shows the description as it is now.

So this way you won't know what a book actually is until you pick it up, until you hold it they all have the same "Deja Vu: you feel like you've read this book a thousand times" description....... .....


Of course this isn't also to not say that there might be some very special books out there that everybody knows just by sight still......

Any thoughts, ideas, comments ??

All the effort invested merely to force a player to have to drag a book to inventory and then right-click use it... *shakes head*

RustyDios wrote:Any thoughts, ideas, comments ??

This does a lot more than I was thinking about, but it addresses my concerns - so yes, I vote for it!

What about assuming that when the player right-click examines a book, they are picking it up and reading?

Is there a reason this is not sufficient that I am missing that would justify the proposed changes?

My other question is - how do these changes make the game more fun?

I'm not campaigning for this revision, it's merely a suggestion.

I'll answer the below as 1,2,3

daveyeisley wrote:

1. What about assuming that when the player right-click examines a book, they are picking it up and reading?

2. Is there a reason this is not sufficient that I am missing that would justify the proposed changes?

3. My other question is - how do these changes make the game more fun?

1. Imagination is great. In fact I don't need the game for it. I don't think that this change is related to imagination. I believe it would increase immersion.
2. Not for me to judge.
3. This will vary greatly depending upon each person's interpretation of fun.

The question was directed towards those in favor, so feel free to answer subjectively.

Also regariding #1, the game does involve using a great deal of imagination, even where immersion is concerned.

Changing the user interface experience (out of character mechanics) as proposed does not adjust the need for imagination in the book-reading process.

Yeah tbh I think books are fine the way are too. I just wish there was a) more of them and b) the casecover/descriptions were more random.... other then a few books I don't even need to examine them anymore, I just know what the book will be by the cover. And Aenea has soooooo many cover designs in its haks its silly to see so few in the world.

I mean there could easily be another 16 books added if all the deites had a story (I've only ever seen for Jewel, Zolaras, Torgat and Harcoth).
Also more books on the history of Aenea would be great. The ones concerning the Orc Wars, The Shadowing and The Great Dawn are great for players to pick up on previous world events. So why not add one for the UN-successful raising of Talon ?... or one describing the "four amulets quest"..........

I believe that said, at one point, that if we sent him custom book dialogues (like for a new book), that he would incorporate them. I'll look for a post when I have more time.

Eric of Atrophy wrote:I believe that said, at one point, that if we sent him custom book dialogues (like for a new book), that he would incorporate them. I'll look for a post when I have more time.

Yes. Email or PM works. Just need a title and descriptive text.

The Amethyst Dragon wrote:

Eric of Atrophy wrote:I believe that said, at one point, that if we sent him custom book dialogues (like for a new book), that he would incorporate them. I'll look for a post when I have more time.

Yes. Email or PM works. Just need a title and descriptive text.

I've already done this for a large collection of books. Although I admit I didn't actually proof-read the stuff for any FR/Eberon references, there shouldn't be any. I pulled the information direct from the Dracomnicom. Even sent an .erf.... Please let me know if you never recieved this and I'll re-send....

RustyDios wrote:I've already done this for a large collection of books. Although I admit I didn't actually proof-read the stuff for any FR/Eberon references, there shouldn't be any. I pulled the information direct from the Dracomnicom. Even sent an .erf.... Please let me know if you never recieved this and I'll re-send....

You know, I vaguely remember that...

And, after a bit of searching, I found the email. Looks like something that fell through the cracks while dealing with getting the older boys going in a new school back in 2011. I'll re-download that tonight and take a fresh look.

FesterPot did something like this with Almraiven. Being singleplayer, reading the book also allowed him to advance the time in the module. Start reading a book at say, 6PM when it's still daytime out... 5 hours later it's 11PM and dark out. Mechanics wise, the "unread book" which had only a brief description of the books looks was replaced with another book object which had the summary of the contents in the books description.

For Aenea, I can completely see Dave's point about adding mechanics in that accomplish... well, mouse clicking.

BUT... What if perhaps there WAS some benefit into reading? Read a book and gain a bit of a bonus to some of those background aenea knowledge skills? Perhaps even to climbing/jumping (read a survival guide book, you pick up some rockclimbing techniques).

And perhaps to have the books provide more than just a one-time benefit of reading... perhaps a short-term benefit from reading and even re-reading a book. Read a book about some aspect of magic, gain 1 to 5 points of knowledge arcana background skill (forget what the skill point ranges are for the background skills... so 1 to 5 is just an example). ALso, after reading the book gain a +1 to +5 spellcraft skill bonus for 1 game day (while the material is still 'fresh in mind' as it were).

Could be handled with one script too to keep down on resources? Activation script for the books would check the book object for the relevant variables.

An intriguing idea, Manny ... I personally like the timeshift idea, and the skill bonus ... but why make it temporary? Just for the sake of balances?

Yes. There's one book that does already give a permanent bonus to a standard skill (concentration), but it's rare, and magical. *Common* non-magical books shouldn't be giving permanent magical bonuses IMO.

The timeshift... I just mentioned that because it's part of the Almraiven SP module. It would be flat out impractical to implement that into Aenea (what about the PCs who AREN"T reading a book at that particular moment?)