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Sub Race quandry

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Post by gkorjax Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:20 pm

Hi there,

New player here again.

I'm experimenting a bit with some low level guys and I've just chosen the dwarf subrace stone blood. I am a bit underwhelmed after the first four levels I've gained. I am curious about certain benefits.

Firstly, and I think this might be an issue with some of the other subraces...or perhaps its a limit of the nwn server itself, is the benefit of +5 to my discipline. Sounds nice in theory, but I notice that its more like getting five points for free, since I can't assign more points than is capped by level, i.e. 5 at level 2. (I'd have rather had it so that I can allocate my points as normal, and then get the bonus somehow during play ( I am not pretending to have solutions, only observations and desires).

Additionally the natural armor enhancement of +3 does not stack with that gained from items and the 1/5 soak is nice at low levels, but doesnt seem to likely be of much importance past level 7. The constitution bonus of +2 is very nice.

That said, I think the cost is too high. 50 percent movement penalty and 20 percent xp penalty with the only real long lasting benefit being that of the con bonus. I see the benefits of say, drow subrace as being MUCH more substantial, at less cost.

Perhaps people can sway my mind? Am I missing something here? Right now I'm considering just stopping playing that guy.

Please don't take this as whining or complaining too much. I love the server and am amazed at all the hard work that went into it.
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Post by odbo255 Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:46 pm

gkorjax wrote:That said, I think the cost is too high. 50 percent movement penalty and 20 percent xp penalty with the only real long lasting benefit being that of the con bonus. I see the benefits of say, drow subrace as being MUCH more substantial, at less cost.

Perhaps people can sway my mind? Am I missing something here? Right now I'm considering just stopping playing that guy.

Please don't take this as whining or complaining too much. I love the server and am amazed at all the hard work that went into it.

Observations and suggestions are always good and is the type of feedback that keeps the server thriving.

One thing for me in choosing characteristics is that they aid in my RP as much as they are relevant to game mechanics. Sometimes making choices solely for RP and presenting yourself as player an extra challenge can be very rewarding.
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Post by Elhanan Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:53 pm

Weldome to Aenea!

While I have not played one of the Stone Blood Dwarves - the 50% speed reduction is substantial - I tend to agree that the Discipline bonus should be in addition to the ranks invested. Perhaps this could be replaced with both Skill Focus: Discipline in pre-Epic and free Epic Skill Focus: Discipline in Epic life if the prereq is met.

Natural AC will not stack, but the current implenetation will save your hide in low lvls; pun intended. And Soak is much the same; good at start of game.

Perhaps some more additional love should be given for this race, esp for later in Epic life. Maybe some kind of Dmg Recuction like Barbarian or DwD that stacks could be granted. Or maybe a look at reducing the penalty to 25% since the current benefits are short lived? *pun intended again*



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Post by gkorjax Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:56 pm

Thank you everyone for your kind replies. I do feel that if the server was level limited to less than 10, that the benefits would be more ...important. I was just a little shocked when I cashed in some items and bought a +3 natural ac amulet...and my ac didnt go up. Exploring the server with this character is also most difficult with the speed penalties.
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Post by Elhanan Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:06 pm

Wonder if the Epic Feat Armor Skin could be implemented? This does stack with other Natural AC, and would make a reason for such a cost.
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Post by daveyeisley Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:56 pm

I have a stoneblood, too. I never play him. Your reasons mirror my own. The drawbacks far outweigh the benefits. I rarely make a character who is mechanically handicapped just for the challenge, as I like my PCs to be effective... and fun to play.

Stonebloods are one of the glaring cases in my mind, Vampires are another. You have to be a masochist to some extent. I say this, even though I have a 40th level ascended vampire... but my excuse is that he was a sorceror and had magics to heavily mitigate the sundeath dilemma. The stoneblood movement penalty sort of forced you to wear the striding and springing boots just to get decent bang for your buck as far as playtime goes, and even then, you're still slightly slower than everybody else. Only a monk is liable to actually counter that issue... but what if you dont wanna play a monk? Well, stoneblood gets scratched off the list, in that case.
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Post by Eric of Atrophy Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:15 am

Yes, personally, I tend to stay away from most subraces, simply because of all the mechanical minuses. The ones that I have that are subraced are so because of rp considerations. The way that I play, *any* kind of hit to XP gain is substantial, and only overridden by character concept.

By the by, welcome to Aenea, gkorjax! I hope your stay is a long one, full of white-knuckle adventures and memorable characters!
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Post by Ramana Jala Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:10 am

Welcome to the awesome world of Aenea !

But yeah... I was a bit disappointed myself when I discovered that for my Shadow Child, the skill bonuses to Hide and Move Silently don't add over my skill point allocation like bonuses, but are subject to the investment cap. Not only can I not invest any more in Hide or Move Silently until level 22 (as these are cross-class skills for my wizard), but I could have easily just invested those myself. I'd thought that the point was that the Shadow Child was supposed to be more sneaky than possible for the skill cap, i.e. these would be skill bonuses, but I guess not.
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