Partially Used: Unidentified Items - Thoughts

This is post is going to be about a few slightly separate things, but I figured that they were close enough in theme to warrant being in the same post. Also, fair warning, I tend to ramble.

Now I haven't been in Aenea for very long (less than a week) so my experience is slanted towards the earliest of areas, but when I see a beholder, in a wizards tower, I feel somewhat cheated when he says that some of my items are too powerful for him to identify. (Now that I write this, I suspect that it is, in fact, a somewhat large eyeball familiar )

In any event, So far, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of what I'm going to call "thematic adjustment" to the lore skill. Without sampling the higher areas, this is mostly speculation, but I'd bet my meager remaining gold that merchants in those areas have a high level Lore score.

Which makes sense really; a high level character needs high level loot which needs high level merchants with high level lore skill to identify them. There's some form of pattern there I'm sure. But if this is the case, then it stands to reason that in the low level areas with low level items, most of the merchants should be able to identify most of the items. ESPECIALLY when they sell items far, far exceeding the worth of the ones you want identified.

Even if this lack of decent Lore-skilled merchants is intentional (to really hammer home how poor, weak and inconsequential low level players are) merchants still charge you for identifying items when they are too powerful for them to do so. It is impossible for the player to be able to gauge whether or not a merchant can identify a particular item, and penalizing them for guessing wrong is, in my opnion, a little too tough. It is also impossible to know (I think) whether the merchant cant identify it because they don't have the lore skill, or because the item is too expensive for ANY merchant to identify.

Not to mention the hordes of regular non-enchanted items that must each be examined just to make sure it isn't a Greatsword of Uber Smashing +9 or whatever. There is another thread on the forum that is pretty much about this, but I'd like to give my two cents here, that if a player has a billion lore skill, i don't think they should be forced to identify every single item. While I would prefer that every item that the player picks up is identified (that is, it must be in the player's inventory) if the player has the skill, I suspect that this would ruin the immersion for a lot of people. I propose either an Identify Inventory Tool (similar to the other player tools) or that the player identifies everything they can upon resting.
E.g. "Bob the wizard has a backpack full of scrolls. As he prepares to rest for the night, he looks over each one, hoping to discover any that he can use."

I have yet to come across any lore potions. I assume that they were taken out to place emphasis on player skill and the 5000gp altar?

Is there a way to use the Select Tool or something else that would limit the items you want a vendor to identify to 1?

In the thread I mention earlier, mention he was setting up a random enchanted loot system. Has this been implemented yet?

Um, that's about it.

Would love feedback. Even if it's "N00bzor, we liek the systum alreddii!!! STFU!!!!!!111ONEONE"

Being new here does have some disadvnatges, but some things here are already addressed.

* For all items in inventory to be ID, offer a 5000 gp sacrifice on the altars of Kalas (eg; one in the hidden grove above the Vale).

* There is a Ring of +5 Lore available each reset at the Gnome caravan at the crossroads outside of Compton. One for each hand stacks for +10 Lore.

* Vendors (even the Beholder) are topped out early. If any high lvl PC is on-line (type ;;w and enter), you can send a tell to see if they have the Skill at high lvls; all of mine do, as I like saving coin, and using things found readily.

And we have all been there! Welcome!

Most of my frustration stems from merchants charging for identifying items that they don't actually, you know, identify. If this didn't happen, it wouldn't really matter about any of the other stuff (except having to identify every single item one by one). So that's what I'll suggest and we can just forget about the first post, nothing to see there

1. Merchants should stop swindling me for a service that they don't actually provide.
2. Some sort of identify inventory system/tool based off the character's lore skill

I'll offer up a suggestion while we are on the topic. I'd like to see items that are "mundane" in nature not require identification.

Why should a sling that a goblin drops require identification?

I agree that there's a few tweaks that would make the Identify Item issues better.

I don't recall too much trouble with identification at lower levels, and I only used the Pay to Identify feature a couple of times. (BTW, I use Sal's of Campton a lot, and never had any issues with him.) As to readily identifying things yourself, early on I used two +5 Lore rings. (Yes, rings effects often stack here in Aenea). But now with about 20 invested in my Lore, I never have to use the rings anymore. So, I'd say with an investment of at least 10 in your Lore, and two +5 Lore rings, that should cover most things. I could give you a couple rings if you catch me IG.

I do hate the fact that even if your Lore skill is high enough, items do not identify themselves when you pick them up, but must be clicked through to identify. It's an interesting point that if you log out of the game and then back in, everything non-magical will have been identified (but maybe only if you have high enough Lore, I'm not sure). I just wish I didn't have to relog to get this automatic ID, as it would so help sorting loot right at the point of picking stuff up, rather than having to non-stack everything into bags first, then go back and laboriously identify stuff in order to stack it. Easier or automatic identification of non-magical common items has been often discussed.

For identifying scrolls, there is a Helm of Comprehending Languages and Magic, that just renders your scrolls identified without any other action necessary. For gems, there is a Magnifying Lens that will identify them all at once. I stopped using it when I discovered that it would empty all the gems out of one's bags, but I think that issue might have been fixed. Although just logging out and back in will identify all gems.

A smoother and perhaps quicker way to do the identify process for big batches of things is to first quickslot the Examine function, so as to use a simple left-click rather than the right-click to radial-menu-select process. Then put your left hand on the Esc key and your right hand on the mouse. Click on the Examine quickslot, click on item, give it a second to change to the identified description, hit the Escape key, and repeat. I use this method when I'm picking up lots of scrolls, to ID them before I take them, so they will drop into a stack on my scrolls inventory page. Thanks to Dave for this tip.

And I definitely agree that if it was the case that a merchant can't identify something for you, then you shouldn't be charged. Such an issue would hit the lower-level poor the worst.

I have two characters. The first is an 8th level rogue, with enough lore to identify most things I've come across. He is also far better equipped, and has a decent stack of gold in the bank, so 125gp an item, even if it fails, is not a big deal. The reason I got my panties in a bunch was my 4th level fighter, who doesn't have the skill points to drop into lore, and blew +700gp (almost my entire savings) because I knew what the items were, and that even if only the lower two were identified, I would easily come out in front.



While there are many suggestions for identifying items, they usually require a relatively large amount of gp up front (Scrolls/5000 for shrine/2 rings/etc)
I know it's a challenge for lower level characters and even more so for the build I'm doing, I just kinda wanted to vent.

Still, I stand by the no charge for not identifying items, and hope agrees and (providing that it is feasible) puts it in the next module update.

And that examine hotkey thing is good. I will most certainly set that up. Thanks for sharing.

I will add my voice to the chorus asking for some method of applying ones lore automatically to loot while it is still in the corpse/loot window. This way when looting, Identical items will stack properly. I think it is reasonable to assume a PC is examining loot before they pick it up.

Ramana Jala wrote:
A smoother and perhaps quicker way to do the identify process for big batches of things is to first quickslot the Examine function, so as to use a simple left-click rather than the right-click to radial-menu-select process. Then put your left hand on the Esc key and your right hand on the mouse. Click on the Examine quickslot, click on item, give it a second to change to the identified description, hit the Escape key, and repeat. I use this method when I'm picking up lots of scrolls, to ID them before I take them, so they will drop into a stack on my scrolls inventory page. Thanks to Dave for this tip.

You could streamline further by putting the quickslot in F1.. if your keyboard is like mine you could have your left hand over the ESC and F1 key with two different fingers (on my keyboard index finger on F1, wedding finger on ESC).. right hand on mouse. ... no need to keep selecting the quickslot, just press F1, use the mouse to select the item, press ESC, press F1, select next item.... ... ...

Its also handy having Examine on a quickslot for selecting yourself to remind yourself of your in-game bio...

I like that loot is un-IDed... even goblin junk. Unless it's something obviously magical like that big glowy longsword of sparkly thunberbolt and lightning doom shooting off all over the place.... well, ANY object could be magical, even powerfully so (think the Hobbit... Gollum's ring, the One Ring at that, didn't APPEAR as anything special right off the bat).

From a mechanics standpoint though.... One run through say, the beholder tunnels can be a time-consuming nightmare when it comes to IDing unless you fork over the 5K for the kalas altar auto-ID.

Even with quickslotting the examine function... it can take ages to click on every single ring, scroll and wand in an inentory full of loot.

Now THAT is not *fun*. It's tedious work. And for characters who have invested into the lore skill... what's the benefit? Not having to pay for the kalas altar to ID everything? With my bard Alastair... his 127 lore skill can ID anything, he IS a walking-talking altar of Kalas But I fork over the 5K at the kalas altar anyway....

Because I just don't want to always deal with the mouse-clicking.

So... what can be done?

The balance would have to be "there has to be some challenge to identifying magical goodness" vs "I don't want to pay 5K or do tedious clicking for the next hour".

Wizards/sorcs and bards have those IDing granted spells (and now that I think about it... do clerics of Kalas get these? It's Kalas' altars used for IDing anything....)

The lower level one works nicely... but is limited uses per day, despite also having the GP charge as well. The higher level one, Legend lore, also is severely limited as it's only 2 uses per rest.

My suggestions would be then...

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Granted spell: Identify. Keep the GP charge. Keep it at 3 uses per day even... but instead of having to use it on a single item, make it work JUST like the merchants IDing process. Use the granted spell, and it scans your entire inventory, charging 75 GP per identification.

Granted spell:Legend Lore. Same thing... Keep it at 2 uses a day, but allow it to scan the entire inventory like a Kalas altar.

For all other characters who aren't wizards, sorcerers or bards....

Create a new player-tool gizmo (like the magical jeweler's lense, jump tool, sacrificial flame, ect) that can scan the entire inventory and ID stuff running off the PC's lore check. Make it limited uses per day, make it a consumable, even... but give a tool that can allow a player to avoid massive tedious mouse clicking With it running off the lore check... if they can't ID it anyhow, the gizmo offers no inherent bonus other than saving the player from a cramped mouse-clicking finger.

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Even just the changes to the wiz/sorc/bard granted spells would also make them... well, extremely useful and something other than inventory clutter for any wiz/sorc/bard with mediocre or better lore skills.

I would prefer VC commands, but Manny's suggestions are wonderful. Please, yes.

Yes, yes ... either way, a vc command or a tool, it sounds like an excellent addition! Mass ID = awesomesause!

Manny's post brings up some interesting points, for which I'd like to give my own feedback.

First of all, I thought I had noticed something that led me to believe that there might have been an adjustment recently that mitigated some of the 'identification of mundane items' issue. I haven't been able to play much the last month or two, so please let me know if something like that has solved any of these issues.

I've never used the Altar of Kalas, directly as a result of the loot packing-away issue. I don't know how much space others have in their inventory, but I have altogether less than two inventory pages free for loot to accumulate on, and just a few beholders can fill that in an instant. The real problem for me is packing things away in bags under the fact that no gems or rings or potions will stack until they're identified. Therefore, I've usually had to identify most everything before I can even get to an Altar of Kalas. Recently I've stopped picking up most gems (and potions and coppery items) except the ones I recognize as valuable on sight. I sure wish my toon, who is a fairly proficient gem-cutter even, with enough Lore to identifiy 99% of everything by click, could just recognize them on sight like I can. Makes me wish for her Lore skill to be automatically utilized in the corpse loot window, or for a learning system like the tradeskills, so that all the types of things that my toon has become very well familiar with, would become identified.

I've never used the Wizard granted Lore spells. Since my first toon wasn't a wizard, I had learned to get my Lore up to about 10, and find a Lore ring or two and some items of attribute enhancement, to make my non-wizard able to identify almost anything. So I went the same route with my wizard, and really just forgot about those Lore spells. I don't even know the exact mechanics of those spells in Aenea, but I had assumed that they were either short duration or one-item identification, both of which are nearly useless to a wizard with at least 10 Lore.

I haven't tried the gem-identifying Magical Lens for a long time, not since it was supposed to be fixed. I suppose I should try it again, and see how it could fit into the routine of identification I've settled into. I assume that the gems have to be taken and in inventory for it to i.d. them, and then they still have to be manually stacked. It would be a tossup between taking all the gems and then identifying them and then stacking them, or my current method of leaving most and quickly identifying valuable-looking ones in the corpse loot window so that they will stack when finally taken.

As to scrolls, since I have to identify them before they will stack, and most of the time my ranger has to keep on a helm for mental protection in case of spawns or respawns, or my wizard has on an INT helm that removing will bork her spells, I don't use the Helm of Identifying Magic very much. It's only useful if, having decided to take the big hit on storage space, I just quickly cram my bags full of unidentified scrolls and things that I won't identify until later, leaving other loot. By the way, now that there are newish loot items that may look more mundane but aren't, it's a danger that I may pass over these items. Having all the mundane stuff that my toon should know really well about by now be automatically identified (according to her Lore or to a 'learning' method), would highlight these items as being different.

I'd gotten into a routine of those quickslotted Examine and Escape for quick identification. Pulled all of my scrolls out of storage bags and dedicated an entire page to them so that as I identified things in the corpse loot window, they would fall into stacks when I finally took them. Along with not picking up everything from loot drops anymore, has made picking up loot to be a slightly less aggravating process. For my stealthy character who doesn't use many buffs, having to spend five minutes per kill sorting loot doesn't inconvenience me too horribly (if I'm alone), but for my wizard, the spell buffs timeout makes loot pickup something that I can only do after the level is cleared, and hope that the hour that it will take to do it doesn't start the respawning in the area. If I'm in a moving-on party or in a hurry, I just quickly take, unidentified, whatever looks most valuable from any drop in about five seconds, leaving half of the loot untaken.

So, I'm still hoping for a method to be implemented that makes one's Lore skill count when opening the corpse loot drop window. That would make those mundane things stack when taken, the biggest help I could think of. I seem to recall from my previous PW that automatic Lore i.d. in the corpse loot window is possible. But if it has to be a useable item as Manny suggests, that could work. If it could do more, like learn which items the character has seen before and make them identified too, that would be even better. A toon with enough Lore should be able to pretty readily know whether an item is magical or not, and the click to i.d. procedure using the toon's Lore is supposed to reflect this. So why not an auto-identify for those items that the toon's Lore makes them eligible to identify?

Merchants identifying items:

Some merchants can attempt to identify magical items, and those that can are able to ID items up to 10,000 gp in value. They charge 125 gp per item for this up front...they're getting paid for their efforts and expenditures, and like the PCs, have no idea if an item is beyond their ability until they go through the process.



I am currently testing a method to modify the behavior of loot in remains, by creating a new "remains" placeable objects and moving loot into them. The default remains objects do not have a way to hook into the "on opening" with a script (they don't even have a blueprint I can overwrite with one of my own).

The method does run some extra scripting that involves copying inventory items held by the creature. So far so good, but it hasn't been tested under heavy load yet (such as an enemy-filled fireball or a Great Cleaving epic fighter).

The new system is intended to lead to automatic identification of completely mundane items (those without any extra properties), if the PC opening the remains has:
- functioning detect magic items spell
(This is a new 0-level spell I'm adding in the next hak update)

It will also allow for an automatic Lore check to identify any items if they have one or both of the following:
- high lore skill (the number here isn't set it stone, but beginning characters won't have this, even with a pair of +5 Lore rings)
- Bardic Knowledge


Such items auto-identified in either way revert to their previous state if left on the remains and the remains are closed. It's the person opening the remains figuring out what each does...a high level wizard or bard might be able to quickly ID everything in a set of remains, but they won't stay ID'd for the next PC that comes along unless that first person bothers to actually remove said items from the remains (and presumably explaining what each does as he/she does this).

This won't work with creatures that leave a lootable corpse. If a creature is notable enough that I set it as lootable when dead, PCs can take a few moments to more closely examine what it's carrying.

Thank you bunches, , for looking into what's possible to do about this issue.

Sounds like you've got some good ideas to test.

Ooooh, yes, that sounds like a swell idea! Canna wait to see it in action! Hopefully, it stands up to player use (the strain of Bane, for example)!

Played some this morning and I found looting to be 1000% "more fun" now that the auto-id logic is in place.

Thank you !

Played last night in the kobolds and goblins, and the new looting auto-id is AWESOME !

Absolutely totally smoother and no hassle now ! The way it should be!

AAAAWWWWWWWWESSSSSSOOOMMMMEE!

Thank you so much, !!!

I gotta agree with Ramana on this! I ran into some goblins, and it was awesome to not have to worry about IDing the standard stuff!

Concur.

Ditto... Al's god tier lore skill pays off in the form of me not having a sore clicking finger lol