Not Used: New Feats

As a way to balance the new metamagic feats and give something equally for non-casters, I've got a few suggestions for non-casting feats.

First Strike (Requirements - Improved Initiative, Superior Initiative, DEX 35+)

Spoiler:

First Aid (Requirements - Base Heal Skill 20+, CON 22+, Skill Focus - Heal)

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Shield Wall - (Requirements - Shield Proficiency, STR 25+, CON 25+, Epic [Fighter, Bard, Paladin, Cleric, Druid, Barbarian, Ranger])

Spoiler:

Improved Taunt (Requirements - CHA 20+, Skill Focus - Taunt, Base Taunt Skill 15+)

Spoiler:

Bargain Finder (Requirements - Base Appraise Skill 15+)

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Bully (Requirements - Base Intimidate Skill 15+, Skill Focus - Inimidate)

Spoiler:

(Name To be determined) (Requirements - Base Bluff Skill of 10+, Skill Focus - Bluff)

Spoiler:

Magic Shield (Requirements - Any four arcane defense feats)

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Energy Reflection (Requirements - Energy Resistance (Selected Element), Epic Energy Resistance I (Selected Element) )

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Double Shot - (Requirements - Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus (Ranged Weapon), Improved Critical (Same Weapon), Improved Initiative, Epic Weapon Focus (Same Weapon)

Spoiler:

Divine Intervention
(Requirements - 25 levels of Cleric or Druid, 25+ Wisdom, Strong Soul)

Spoiler:

For reference, a free action is one that does not give penalties to the number of attacks in a round nor remove the ability to attack or cast spells that round, much like the semi-class abilities when used. For all intents and purposes, the abilities are truly instantaneous and subject to no attacks of opportunity etc.

I figured I'd try to make some of the less used skills and feats a little more appealing so that they become a tiny bit more useful, hence actually used.

How do these look to everyone? And how doable are these on the end of scripting? (I'm sure some are FAR more difficult than others, but I'm just tossing out ideas)

I likes those alot, good ideas there Kitten!

I'm adding more to the list here, the new ones are in blue for easy reference.

After a bit of consideration, I realized that some of these abilities would bequite tedious to implement. I believe that would have to change all of the spell 2da files in order to implement the "Spell Deflection" The others however are probably much easier to implement.

Added 2 new ideas (in red) also removed Spell Deflection from the list due to the aforementioned reason.

That magic shield one...in another game i play they called it "Parma Magica" which in latin meant "wizards shield" could be a good name for it

Kefrem wrote:That magic shield one...in another game i play they called it "Parma Magica" which in latin meant "wizards shield" could be a good name for it

I don't know, Parma Magica sounds a little too "Olive Garden" to me

No no....thats parma alfredo

The bluff magic is nice... but 10 skill points and a feat to bypass death magic immunity is a bad idea.

Perhaps it could be combined in some way with Illusionary spell, which we already got.

They're broken on items. When cast as an actual spell they work fine.

You broke it. You and your little froggy

See, while the use of the illusionary spells would be a good idea, my point to making these fears was so that non-casters could get some neat abilities. By changing that to require the illusionary spells, it makes it a magic-based ability and removes the point to making it.

I'm not entirely sure that I can agree with you about the concealment on the Shield Wall ability. Considering that shields (mainly tower shields, but all of them have the same ability) give a stacking form of "concealment" against ranged attacks, I figured that enhancing wouldn't hurt any. Besides, how many truly dangerous enemies actually use ranged attacks?

Could just make it +10 *shield* bonus to AC against ranged. No concealment.... would effectively give a person with a +5 shield an additional +5 ac but only against ranged.

Heck... doestn even have to be against ranged only.... make it +10 temp *shield* AC bonus, and lower the damage immunity to 25%.

Alundaio wrote:"... But what I'm saying is 100% concealment to ranged attacks stacked with 35% damage immunity is outrageously overpowering. With 35% you are most likely to get barely any damage from a ranged attack. ...

Also in the Arena this would be a really unfair advantage to any ranged class. It's already somewhat unfair with casters vs. ranged. With the spell that causes missle attacks to miss 55%. Though they needed something like that. But Wizards being overpowered is another topic.

1 ) 15 rounds isn't nearly as long as you might think. Yes, it's a long time, but it'll be gone before you know it, especially against these rediculous creatures that the DMs conjure up that take even Crideas some time to kill. A feat like this is desgined to put a short-lived ultra-defense against these sort of creatures.

2 ) Remember that Aenea (please correct me if I'm wrong) Is not designed for PvP combat, but for PvE (Player vs. Evironment) combat. Thus, this point, while it would be valid otherwise, isn't quite as important as perhaps you're making it out to be. [Oh yes, and try 100% concealment via Tempest's Protective Gale ]

15 Rounds for that kind of immunity and concealment is a bit long. It would have to be an Epic Feat. It's like variant of Epic Warding but with immunity instead of DR. It's also unrealistic, even for D&D standard, without magic to be able to block/avoid 100% projectile attacks with a shield.

The Arena exists solely to PvP. Sure Aenea isn't a PvP server but either way balance should be considered. Some of the same balance issues exist between PvP and PvE.

If you introduce this feat I can't even imagine how ridiculously (More) overpowered you would be. (Especially by multi-classing with Epic Wizard)

Classes are suppose to balance eachother out. Whether you PvP or not. All classes have a strength and weakness in D&D. Giving more and more strengths continues to throw the balance off more and more. I see it with wizard already.

And Tempest's Proctective Gale is bs in my opinion, it's duration is way too long for 25% miss towards melee and 100% for Projectiles. Not to mention it's +1 deflection per 3 caster levels...

1 round/2 levels isn't too long actually. Besides resistance and true strike, it's the shortest duration spell I can think of. Everything else is 1 round/level or longer. It does suck for PvP matches (I hate it myself with my own archers, but love it with my casters), but then a lot of spells throw balanced PvP out the window (acid sheath, gale, bigbies, cleave)... but Aenea isn't PvP oriented, and it's really not that easy to balance out PvP concerns with PvM concerns.

Being completely immune to projectile attacks for 20 Rounds and having +13 Deflection at level 40 is a bit long for such a powerful spell.

But 50% concealment vs all weapons for 40 turns isn't?

If you pick any given class, somebody's gonna say "X ability is too powerful". There's really nothing too powerful about this spell. By the time a caster gets it (7th level spell), pretty much every archer NPC isn't much of a threat even without gale. AC wise... you don't gotta be a wizard/sorc to get oodles of deflection AC like that. Dalix worshippers can get up to +10 deflection, not dependant on caster levels.

There's really nothing wrong with the spell other than it sucks for archers in PvP

Because Aenea has no real challenge PvE wise. From what you say, then why even have the spell? It would be a different story if Orc Archers were deadly. Then Wizards would have a huge advantage compared to other classes.

Either way the balance is off. You would disagree that whether or not PvP or PvE that Wizards aren't over balanced?

In fact Dave had to give the new monsters for the new area immunities to NERF wizards because they are so ridiculously overpowered. Epic Wizards are pretty much invincible in Aenea.

Giving more and more (Powerful) skills to other classes will just make it worse. So far did a really good job on adding things in which most have a counter-balance somewhere else. A lot of the new content actually gives classes more diverse skills.

I'm not saying Wizards do not deserve all those spells and changes. It's just that there is nothing to balance or counter them. PvE was never boosted to counter all these new spells/skills and reincarnation/Ascension.

Im not really talking about PvP here at all. Because really PvP in Aenea is so pointless because with Reincarnation/Ascension the diversity between classes has lessened. Everyone has spell resistance, death immunity and crit immunity. The classes that use to be good in PvP in vanilla Nwn are utterly useless in PvP in Aenea. Classes weaknesses no longer exist. Rogues now are utterly crap not just now in PvE but also in PvP.

SO IF I were to complain about PvP those are the points I would make. I wouldn't cry just about one spell...

Changes made to the Shield Wall suggestion to remove a possible highly overpowered class combo, changing the concealment to 85%, damage immunity to 30% and duration to 1 turn. Changes to the skill rank that affects the bluff-based ability to take into consideration ONLY the base rank w/feat adjustments. Added a cooldown and piety cost to Divine Intervention.

Does anyone have any suggestions for the unnamed one?

Because Aenea has no real challenge PvE wise

Only true once you get into epic levels, especially if you have a good buld. And only because there are no truely epic areas available yet.

Otherwise, I gotta say that's kinda false. Many of my characters are now getting into the late teen-early 20's... and even for those with the ascended bonuses, there are challenges and they've gotten killed in facing those challenges. This mix includes a very wide range of classes from meleers to casters.

You could view that either way the balance is off, but it's not. Level 15 wizard goes up against orc archers. It's not a real challenge. He can go invis, then nuke from a distance, go invis again, rinse repeat. Or he could buff for melee, including gale and wade in tensored up. Why even have the spell? Variety.

Are wizards and sorcs ridiculously overpowered? You could very well view them as such. I think they do have some very huge advantages over other classes, but that's always been a problem in RPGs with magic.

You could say there's nothing to counter wizards, but that would be flat out wrong. My sorc Aurora, who is in the top 3 most powerful PCs, if not THE most can have her magic buffs nuked, and remain nuked by anyone with a modest stack of mords scrolls.

I really think it's kinda silly to complain that this spell is overpowered. No, there's nothing that can threaten epic casters to *essentially* need it. There's no monsters to really threaten anyone really at the high epic levels baring the DM spawns. Does that make it OP?

If it does, that logic makes a TON of stuff OP. a 40th rogue's sneak dice, 40th level PC with 30DD levels and -/30 DR BEFORE items, meleers with dev crit at a min 37DC at level 40, ragnor clerics with harm, SCV+ED... the list goes on and on.

If you really want to complain that a 40th level sorc or wizard is OP with the spell, but admit there's no creature to really challenge 40th level PCs.. how can you really say it's OP? Wait until there ARE epic hunting areas, and THEN examine the spell and how OP it is compared to what other classes can do.

Could I also request that if you're going to debate over that specific one, please move it to another thread. I respect that you want to discuss the specifics of such an ability and how to make it properly "balanced;" however, I'm not so sure that this thread is the place to do so.

Otherwise, I gotta say that's kinda false. Many of my are now getting into the late teen-early 20's... and even for those with the ascended bonuses, there's challenges and they've gotten killed in facing those challenges. This mix includes a very wide range of classes from meleers to casters.

Seeing how you always solo makes my point even more valid. The balance you see only exists at lower levels soloing. A player spends A LOT more time in epic levels then they do at lower levels.

Are wizards and sorcs ridiculously overpowered?

Yes, Wizards are ridiculously overpowered in Aenea. It isn't like that normally. For christ sakes you can kill anything by just caging it up with Barriers. had to remove it's use in Gron's chamber because it nerf'd him so badly. Cleave health devastates everything not immune to necromacy...etc.

I really think it's kinda silly to complain that this spell is overpowered.

I am not complaining about that spell. EvilKitten mentioned it and I gave my opinion on it, that's all. I made one sentence saying it was BS.

There's no monsters to really threaten anyone really at the high epic levels baring the DM spawns. Does that make it OP?

Exactly the balance between PvE is more defined because of a lack of threatening monsters...

If it does, that logic makes a TON of stuff OP. a 40th rogue's sneak dice, 40th level PC with 30DD levels and -/30 DR BEFORE items, meleers with dev crit at a min 37DC at level 40, ragnor clerics with harm, SCV+ED... the list goes on and on.

-Rogues Sneak Attack have a counter. Works only when enemy is Flat-footed, etc...and Sneak Attack immunity...

-Dev Crit is overpowering and is removed frequently from PWs because of this...But it does require alot to get it. So there is SOME balance.

-Self Concealment with Epic Dodge because characters who depend on it have very low HP and depend soley on avoiding attacks then being able to withstand tons of damage. Not to mention the requirements and feats to get it.

(Name To be determined) (Requirements - Base Bluff Skill of 10+, Skill Focus - Bluff)

Beguiling Illusion

Magic Trick

four-flush

Bamboozle

Alundaio wrote:Seeing how you always solo makes my point even more valid.

How so? Because I have non-fighter/non-wizard characters who aren't instantly smashed by everything, wizards are OP? I honestly say I cannot see how you're making that connection logically.

Yes, Wizards are ridiculously overpowered in Aenea. It isn't like that normally. For christ sakes you can kill anything by just caging it up with Barriers. had to remove it's use in Gron's chamber because it nerf'd him so badly. Cleave health devastates everything not immune to necromacy...etc.

And harm doesn't? Cleave is VERY powerful. Is it ridiculously OP? Maybe. Walls? Other classes besides wizards can wall stuff up.

Think about this logically and honestly please. What is the real difference between a wizard walling up some baddie, and a rogue/bard/assassin walling up some baddie? Or a druid or cleric for that matter?

I am not complaining about that spell. EvilKitten mentioned it and I gave my opinion on it, that's all. I made one sentence saying it was BS.

And I've explained why it's not. I've also noted the simple fact of life that you present any given class ability or feature, you will always have somene crying OP.

Exactly the balance between PvE is more defined because of a lack of threatening monsters...

I fail to see the logic in your statement here. Because there aren't any creatures available currently that are a real huge threat to epic level PCs, that demonstrates how wizards are ridiculously OP in PvE?

-Rogues Sneak Attack have a counter. Works only when enemy is Flat-footed, etc...and Sneak Attack immunity...

Sorry, but sneak attacks work even when the target isn't flat footed. I think you have this confused with Death attacks, and the paralysis effect of death attack to be precise. Even with death attack, while the paralysis effect requires flat-foot, the damage acts just like sneak attacks, and only requires flanking. Sneak attacks will work while you flank a creature, or even when solo if you employ darkness/trueseeing/ultravision, or if you otherwise blind the target.

Sneak immunity... undead, golems, beholders, Gron, DM spawned specials... While there are LOTS of undead, they are not the bread-n-butter of Aenea critters.

-Dev Crit is overpowering and is removed frequently from PWs because of this...But it does require alot to get it. So there is SOME balance.

And it the higher level arcane spells require level investments. To get that 20 round +13 AC gale, it requires 39 caster levels. Less caster levels, less AC and shorter duration.

-Self Concealment with Epic Dodge because characters who depend on it have very low HP and depend soley on avoiding attacks then being able to withstand tons of damage. Not to mention the requirements and feats to get it.

And wizards have a less HP than rogues and SDs, and rely on avoiding attacks just as much. And while they have buffs that go beyond what epic dodge and SCV provide, those buffs have durations and can be dispelled.

Don't get me wrong, I do think wizards and sorcs have a huge advantage over other classes. Casters in general, not just arcane casters, have a very heavy advantage. As I said before, this is commonplace in many RPGs. I just don't think it's as utterly ridiculous as you're trying to portray it as.

You have your Opinions and I have mine. I think we should stop now. We hijacked Kittens thread. I can go all day, but I won't...

As for sneak attacks I said "Flat-footed, etc" I didn't feel like stating all the circumstances in which you can make a sneak attack.

Alundaio wrote:Rogues now are utterly crap not just now in PvE but also in PvP.

Oh, I don't know about that, Alundaio. My Dara-erez does quite well for herself.

evilkittenofdoom wrote:Changes made to the Shield Wall suggestion to remove a possible highly overpowered class combo, changing the concealment to 85%, damage immunity to 30% and duration to 1 turn. Changes to the skill rank that affects the bluff-based ability to take into consideration ONLY the base rank w/feat adjustments. Added a cooldown and piety cost to Divine Intervention.

Does anyone have any suggestions for the unnamed one?

I think the concealment at 85% is high if its also giving 30% dmg immunity.

One or the other needs to be lowered or dropped, but the 10 round duration is good.

As for the rest, really... give me ANY class and I will find a way to make a powerful one....
thats me, or a powerbuilder in general. So any discussion using one of my best PCs as
an example is going to be skewed. Not every Wizard will make optimal use of
the spells and other options available in Aenea.... and thats not even to say that
*I* have made optimal use, as I am sure someone could do some things
better than I have.

As for the OP stuff, I cant say I feel any classes are OP as things stand... and
before anybody throws out the "Yeah, but you love Wizards" argument, keep in
mind that doesnt make the class OP, and I have several melee focused characters
that are just as if not more powerful than my wizard.

Mechanics and balance are one of my strong points, and believe me,
loving a classs or not, if I saw something that was OP about it, I
would report it to to be changed/balanced. I have done so in
the past and he can vouch for this.

Also note that the "Wind Wall" spell from PnP is lower level and
achieves the same basic effect as protective gale.

Back on topic, however, I think the shield wall is going in the right direction
with the above tweaks, though I would like to see the concealment drop
to 75% or less, or otherwise have the damage immunity dropped to 20% or less.

Never mind deleted because this off-topic crap should end. I could easily win the argument if I employ Fox News tactics by calling you all Racists.

Bluff Spell idea I like. A name it needs.

First Strike (Requirements - Improved Initiative, Superior Initiative, DEX 35 )
- This one involves battle mechanics, which are 99.9% hardcoded by BioWare.

First Aid (Requirements - Base Heal Skill 20 , CON 22 , Skill Focus - Heal)
- Not right that someone could nonmagically heal much more than many clerical healing spells as well as remove diseases and poisons.

Shield Wall - (Requirements - Shield Proficiency, STR 25 , CON 25 , Epic [Fighter, Bard, Paladin, Cleric, Druid, Barbarian, Ranger])
- Just don't like the looks of this one, even with adjustments mentioned in later posts.

Improved Taunt (Requirements - CHA 20 , Skill Focus - Taunt, Base Taunt Skill 15 )
- Sounds like a hassle to add a feat that is a free action but still can't be used more than once/round and doesn't do anything different than the regular Taunt skill.

Bargain Finder (Requirements - Base Appraise Skill 15 )
- Buying prices are pretty much hardcoded into the merchant functions of the game. The only thing they really account for is the Appraise skill, and even that one is easy to boost enough to get great prices in many cases.

Bully (Requirements - Base Intimidate Skill 15 , Skill Focus - Inimidate)
- Already covered by the dominate person and dominate monster spells.
- I do have an idea for a feat-related used for Intimidate, but that's for later and unrelated to this.

(Name To be determined) (Requirements - Base Bluff Skill of 10 , Skill Focus - Bluff)
- Just don't really like the amount of work that would be involved for the minor results this would entail. Might as well cast spells or use scrolls (you know the PCs with high Bluff skill are also going to be the ones with ranks in Use Magic Device anyway).


Magic Shield (Requirements - Any four arcane defense feats)
- No.

Energy Reflection (Requirements - Energy Resistance (Selected Element), Epic Energy Resistance I (Selected Element) )
- Not really possible.

Double Shot - (Requirements - Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus (Ranged Weapon), Improved Critical (Same Weapon), Improved Initiative, Epic Weapon Focus (Same Weapon)
- Hardcoded game mechanics and balance issues.

Divine Intervention
- At the levels PCs could get this effect, death isn't really that much of a threat/drawback to them, and it'd be a pain to code for the different effects with durations and keeping track of every little piece of information.

Some nice ideas, just not all doable or balanced.