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Feb. 21: Minor Update (Reincarnation/Ascension, MotM)

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Post by The Amethyst Dragon Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:38 am

Couple of minor changes with today's upcoming reset.

Master of the Menagerie - Updating to the new database method, so if you currently have stored critters, they'll be "erased" until you capture new ones.

Reincarnation/Ascension - Will no longer reset the "time played". Unfortunately, I don't have any way to recover any of the "old time" from before this change, so for existing reincarnated characters, I'll be scripting in a one-time "addition" of 48 hours, and for ascended characters, an additional 48 hours.

I'm also adding in the ability to "save" one chosen item when reincarnating/ascending. To do this, use the Select tool/feat on your desired item and use the VC command pc tool itemsave. This will record the item's blueprint to the database, so that after you reincarnate/ascend, that item will automatically (aka, without DM assistance) be restored to you next time you log in (the scripts boot you anyway, so it should be right away when you return to the game).

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Post by daveyeisley Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:58 am

Yeah... the time played thing hurts..... I had like 130-140 hours on Gabe after ascension. Going down to 96..... ouch.

As for saving the item.... when you specify it saves the blueprint... that means just the version that is in the palette, huh? So no crystals, mystic forge, enchant arms&armor, dwarf/maker upgrades or light gems will get saved with it?

EDIT: So, I know that Crideas definitely lost his timeplayed.... but I just wanted to check and confirm that Gabriel was affected, too. He wasnt.... !! 5 days 17 hours played after ascension Smile

Now I am of course confused about why Crideas' time reset.
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:06 pm

Not removing any current time played...just adding time played to what's currently there.

As far as saving all the crystals, etc...I'm already rewriting the scripting I just made to save the entire item, rather than just the blueprint.

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Post by evilkittenofdoom Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:45 pm

Oh yes! That means my cleric can ascend without fear of losing the only item she can't reobtain... (Ack, two, but the one isn't important to me) Oh yes, and is this implemented yet (I.e. has a reset taken place that added the above changes?)

Also, will we be able to claim our previous vouchers when we ascend/reincarnate?
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:38 pm

Changes not in yet. This will be for the reset I'm going to do just before I run today's little event (in about an hour and 15 minutes).

As far as previous vouchers (or voucher items), that'd depend on getting hold of a DM in-game and having the name of that item so he can pull the right item from the game palette.

Part of "restarting" (reincarnating/ascending) is giving up what you have so that you can make an almost-fresh start.

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Post by evilkittenofdoom Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:09 pm

I understand giving up what you have to start anew, but I just want to be able to actually earn those same vouchers back.
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Post by daveyeisley Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:11 pm

Yes, absolutely. The items that you have submitted and gained in-game already will still exist in the palette and can be re-issued when you achieve the needed alottment of time played.

Mind you, any modifications you made to the originals are not saved in the palette, and will needd to be re-applied.
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Post by evilkittenofdoom Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:38 pm

But will the newly acsended/reincarnated character be able to acquire the required vouchers as normal?
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Post by daveyeisley Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:06 pm

evilkittenofdoom wrote:But will the newly acsended/reincarnated character be able to acquire the required vouchers as normal?

If you mean by reward chests, then no. Unless the reward chest triggers are changed to somehow allow reincarnated or ascended PCs to have the reward chests spawned again at a later point, this is going to be a bit of a chore for DMs to check hours played and re-issue custom items for every character that reincarnates or ascends. (and without time played changing at all... we will need some criteria to follow for when previously earned items are to be re-issued after the reincarnation or ascension. Otherwise, ya know... PCs with lots of hours can ask for all their custom items to be re-issued while they are fresh out of the Astral Conjunction from their reincarnation/ascension.)

Hopefully there will be a change to the reward chest triggers....
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:12 pm

There will be some other minor changes as I work on this more.

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Post by Ra Cha Chongo Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:15 pm

As a temp fix, you could always get a custom item rewrite voucher (actually, I think you may need two) and pile all your vouchers onto one item until you're ascended.

As for those of us that had taken level vouchers, is there any chance we'd be able to trade them back in for item vouchers instead?
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Post by MannyJabrielle Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:47 pm

...

Dang... that puts a lotta the A-Team over their next timeplayed marks... voucher goodness :-D
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Post by MannyJabrielle Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:03 pm

omg... this is like christmas!

*logs in the entire A-Team, half of which are ascended*
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Post by MannyJabrielle Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:27 pm

And I'll say this from a "player-standpoint"... I can see how this is a great benefit to "taking it slow" with your characters. 256 hours is a LOOONG time... and frankly, everyone WANTS to get their 500K voucher, AND enjoy it. Having the "timeplayed" clock reset after reincarnation/ascension actually kinda prompted me to "rush" a number of my ascended characters through their reincarnation run.... and then "take it slow" on their ascension run.... Now that the timeplayed clock doesn't reset, the "But I'll lose my earned voucher items" mentality is completely removed.

Simply put... THANK YOU The Amethyst Dragon! This really makes "enjoying one's aenea time" very relaxed in terms of the timeplayed rewards..
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Post by daveyeisley Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:57 pm

MannyJabrielle wrote:And I'll say this from a "player-standpoint"... I can see how this is a great benefit to "taking it slow" with your characters. 256 hours is a LOOONG time... and frankly, everyone WANTS to get their 500K voucher, AND enjoy it. Having the "timeplayed" clock reset after reincarnation/ascension actually kinda prompted me to "rush" a number of my ascended characters through their reincarnation run.... and then "take it slow" on their ascension run.... Now that the timeplayed clock doesn't reset, the "But I'll lose my earned voucher items" mentality is completely removed.

Simply put... THANK YOU The Amethyst Dragon! This really makes "enjoying one's aenea time" very relaxed in terms of the timeplayed rewards..

I would agree here. But i think Im reading the intent differently, and its not quite as exciting to me,
maybe because I am missing something.

It sounds like, although timeplayed will no longer reset, that any earned custom items will still be lost on both reincarnation and ascension. A player can choose to keep one item, sure. All the others go bye bye... and as to when the player would be able to regain them, it seems up in the air.

One idea might be to have it based on level... reincarnated characters could get their chests to spawn again
at certain level plateaus.... and ascended characters would get their chests a little earlier than reincarnated characters level-wise.... just an idea.... but at the moment, it seems nebulous to me.
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Post by MannyJabrielle Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:16 pm

I think The Amethyst Dragon meant he was working out a solution to that issue when he said he was making some more adjustments as he worked on it more.

I really doubt he'd change the system so that players would permanently lose their earned items.
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Post by evilkittenofdoom Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:42 pm

For now however, condensing multiple items into one is a way to preserve at least the value of the already obtained vouchers through ascension/reincarnation. It's what I've just done for the one character that I'll be reincarnating very soon.
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Post by daveyeisley Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:01 pm

Oh, I am aware that the PCs will get their customs back no matter what system we use.

I just meant that we currently face a few options that arent all that exciting.
Having to manually re-issue customs as a DM for anybody who reincarnates/ascends would kinda suck... but without the timeplayed clock resetting, the question becomes how to properly automate that system.

I believe automation is definitely the way to go. Then its a matter of newly reincarnated/ascended not getting their items back right away, but also not needing to dump a bucketload of time in beyond what was needed to earn them originally.

If the re-issue criteria is based on levels it will benefit those who engage in hardcore levelling.... but they would still have to have played enough to achieve the timeplayed plateau to earn the voucher in the 1st place.... so, it would still sort of work out.
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Post by MannyJabrielle Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:39 pm

A quibble with that though....

say character X goes along, and gets his or her 120K voucher before even hitting level 20. They play along more, hit 40th and reincarnate... They've already got the timeplayed in, but now would have to meet a relatively arbitrary level requirement to get their item back. And if they progress as slowly in their reincarated run as they did prior to reincarnating... would likely pick up their 150 voucher before getting back their lower value vouchers...

Even if they didn't take even that long. Character levels along, and hits 40th by say, 31 hours, which is a pretty fast pace unless you're powerlevelling hardcore. They reincarnate, 20k and 40K items go into limbo until they meet this arbitrary level marker, but meanwhile, an hour into being reincarnated, they got their 80K voucher....

I honestly don't see the point in withholding in either situation unless the level requirements are extremely low
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Post by daveyeisley Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:04 pm

Thats what I was envisioning... the level requirements being pretty low.... I think you should have all your items back by 20th level at the latest.

Probably by 15th more likely.... with the possible exception of the 500k voucher.... maybe.

Then again... if you have already earned your 500k... unless you have a heavily dwarf/maker upgraded item or a special 'event reward' item... you are very likely going to select the 500k as the item you 'keep'.

I still think the afore mentioned 'event reward' or heavily modded in-game items should be saveable, somehow.... without having to choose just a single one.... like in the case where you've got multiples.

In any case, even if you do 'all items regain by 10th level' or something... the point that I see behind withholding is so that the fresh out of reincarnation/ascension character isnt walking around with 20-500k worth of ridiculously powerful items... it sort of makes going back to level 3 a moot concept.....
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Post by RustyDios Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:03 pm

... Just to point out.... I re-incarnated Shouri today and used the new pc tool command "pc tool itemsave"... I got a feedback message saying the item had been saved.... went to re-incarnate, all worked ok as far as I can tell, but no item returned when getting back to the conjunction or the SDI... .... ..
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Post by grundail Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:12 pm

i had the same issue with Drugo
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:40 pm

Crap. Thanks for the report.

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Post by The Amethyst Dragon Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:19 am

Ok, for those of you that lost your "saved" item when reincarnating/ascending, after the next reset, ask a DM to use the Select PC tool on you, followed by the VC command dm tool lostandfound. You'll then have to log out and back in, and you should then get your item back.

[ I'll be resetting the server as soon as the module finishes saving in the toolset and I get it copied over to the server. ]

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Post by MannyJabrielle Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:30 pm

the lostandfound command doesn't work :-/
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Post by grundail Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:14 pm

for me it's no biggie i'll just get all the items and have the dwarf or the maker make it again, gives me purpose again at a low level lol
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Post by MannyJabrielle Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:25 pm

daveyeisley wrote:Thats what I was envisioning... the level requirements being pretty low.... I think you should have all your items back by 20th level at the latest.

Probably by 15th more likely.... with the possible exception of the 500k voucher.... maybe.

Then again... if you have already earned your 500k... unless you have a heavily dwarf/maker upgraded item or a special 'event reward' item... you are very likely going to select the 500k as the item you 'keep'.

Or how about this actually.... A "second" timer for timeplayed rewards.... after you reincarnate or ascend, the second timer kicks in... when that second timer reaches 1 hour, you can get a special timeplayed reward chest with a "get back your 20K ticket", your 40K at 2 hours, ect... Or you could start the "item return" tickets at 2 horus played, or 4 hours played.

These "reincarnation/ascension timeplayed chests" would only have the "get back item" tickets, and those tickets would only be good if you had the particular value ticket item to start with. (so if you've only invested 20 hours total on the normal clock by the time you reincarnate/ascend, no picking up an early 80K ticket when the "reincarnate/ascended" chest gives you a "get back your 80K ticket" voucher)

This would run concurrent to the normal 'timeplayed' counter, so when you reach your ACTUAL next time-played reward chest, you can still pick up that XXXK voucher if you didn't already get it prior to reincarnating/ascending.

That way... you still have to reinvest time again to get back your time-played rewards, but not have to do the FULL time all over again... at the longest, your 256 hour timeplayed reward would be a 288 hour play time to get back during a reincaration/ascension run.

And I just really feel that yes, having a 4th level character with a high value item right out of the conjunction can be somewhat unbalancing, particuarly if they got multiple reward items... but there's nothing stopping a non-reincarnated/ascended character from levelling slowly and gaining those same value items... Because it's a "time played' reward, not a "levels gained" reward.
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Post by daveyeisley Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:50 pm

If that system can be done, sure... works for me... I dont really mind either way. I see the point of not keeping powerful customs after reincarnation/ascension... but I also hate the idea of having to wait a painful amount of time to get stuff back that I already earned.

If some of the stuff hasnt been earned before reincarnation, then I fully agree the original timeplayed counter should take precedence.
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Post by MannyJabrielle Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:53 pm

I can see newly reincarnated/ascendeds not having hawtgear either... for me it's just a toss up between "You started over" vs "invest X amount of hours into this character, get X reward". Both are valid arguments, but balancing them has gotta be a pain for The Amethyst Dragon. I kinda like my idea cuz you're not investing double the time (or triple even), but you still gotta reinvest some more to balance out the reincarnation/ascension bonuses.
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Post by RustyDios Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:32 am

How about we make it a requirement that custom items are submitted with THE LEVEL you originally got the token... and The Amethyst Dragon can somehow add in his coding for ILR... ... on re-incarnation/ascention you get to keep all your custom items but you won't be able to use them until you reach the level you were at when you first got the item.... .... not sure how/what to do with the clock (keep it counting ~ your'll likely end up with a higher price voucher at lower(but re-incarnated) level,, reset it ~ same problems with playing "double-time" for your rewards)) ..... ... and know this will have a few more things to think about but I just wanted to get this idea out there....
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Post by daveyeisley Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:41 pm

My issue wit the ILR:

Lets say I put in 256+ hours before reincarnating.... its pretty much a given that I am going to be level 40. So, my 500k would be a level 40 item. Meaning I wont have its benefit thru any part of reincarnation until I am ready to ascend. that would suck.
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Post by evilkittenofdoom Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:16 pm

I agree. A 120k item comes up to an ILR of about 20 IIRC. ILR works in some places, but not here except on the few items it's already on.
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