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Magical disease: Farstep Fever (an example)

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Post by Eric of Atrophy Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:42 am

Just as the title says, a magical disease that teleports the infected PC to a random location ... no rhyme or reason, just random teleportation!

I was just thinking that with the addition of the Herbalist skill set to the game, wouldn't it be cool to flesh out the diseases a bit more? Add some cool afflictions, instead of the vanilla "disease"?

Ideas? Feedback? Anyone?
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Post by Lasombra Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:12 am

Me likey. A lot Magical disease:  Farstep Fever (an example) Icon_twisted
However, I think it would be good to allow coming back to the location you were teleported from originally after getting cured. Imagine being one step away from clearing the Searing Sands maze and suddenly getting teleported to limbo Magical disease:  Farstep Fever (an example) Icon_lol

On a related note, I think it would be great to have some serious diseases requiring quests to cure, for example this one. How about character gets randomly teleported to areas in which they need to find clues regarding cure? Of course they would gain a lot of experience for finishing the quest(and perhaps some unique reward).
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Post by Alundaio Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:50 am

Hahaha! I can imagine fighting a new monster that if you fail the DC you randomly teleport throughout Aenea...

Or maybe even a new trap vs. Players in certain dungeons that do this...

I like the idea.
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Post by RustyDios Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:38 pm

It could even "piggyback" off the Farstep Potion script... ... sounds ace.. what self respecting wizard (monster) wouldn't put a few "farstep" traps in their lair to simply send the victim away if they knew how.... .... ....
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Post by daveyeisley Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:23 pm

RustyDios wrote:It could even "piggyback" off the Farstep Potion script... ... sounds ace.. what self respecting wizard (monster) wouldn't put a few "farstep" traps in their lair to simply send the victim away if they knew how.... .... ....

Well, in order for such a trap to work... one must be in a non-teleport blocked area. That downside is that if you can teleport someone out, then others could also teleport in. Of course, depending on planar mechanics... planeshifting someone might still work Razz
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Post by Alundaio Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:02 pm

I'm sure there is way's around the scripted teleport block. It doesn't have to be a real trap either.

But assuming a Maniacal Farstep Wizard did figure out how to trap his keep with such magic, I'm sure he would have figured out how to block only incoming teleportation.

There's a lot you can do with that idea though. A farstep poison or disease seems cool too. Sure as hell wouldn't want to get the "Farstep Fever."

Sounds like a funny curse too. As long as you give enough time in between the teleports to give them enough time to get the cursed item removed.
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Post by daveyeisley Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:09 pm

If there is a way to modify teleport block, then it opens up a can of worms. For instance, I want Crid's sanctum to block everyone's teleportation but *his*.
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Post by Eric of Atrophy Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:57 pm

If anyone can modify the teleport scripts, ... Magical disease:  Farstep Fever (an example) Icon_biggrin

In any case, I was thinking more along the lines of an affliction contracted by a PC that "fired" randomly and deposited the PC in a new location. If the area was teleport blocked, then that teleportation would be blocked as well.

Ultimately this is just an idea for more flavor to diseases than just "disease." I mean, how stinky is it right now - get diseased, get a potion, bang, you're cured. No variety, no specifics, no nothing. This is just a thread to get folks thinking about diseases, and what they could do for your PCs.

Or how about "The Deadfoot Curse," where you get perma-slowed and have a fear aura about you. Seriously, don't y'all think that more variety for diseases would make it more fun to be afflicted with them?

Anyone? Anyone?
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Post by MannyJabrielle Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:12 pm

The problem with diseases in NWN is they're very easily cured, and the incubation periods are relatively long (24 game hours), Some of the default diseases can be rather nasty if left uncured (one makes red slaadi pop out of you ala Alien)

That, and diseases are really no big deal because NPCs don't care or mind. Morrowind was great because when you were diseased, NPCs would shriek at you to get away until you got cured.
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Post by Eric of Atrophy Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:28 pm

MannyJabrielle wrote:Morrowind was great because when you were diseased, NPCs would shriek at you to get away until you got cured.
Wouldn't it be great if that functionality could be added, in a similar manner to the way that the NPCs recognize a PC now? Ah, the wonderful world of variables!
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Post by Ra Cha Chongo Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:58 am

I think it sounds like a neat idea; diseases as they are don't generally seem to pose much threat to a PC.

Ooh, what about a disease that causes you to have an "aura of disease"? Instant pandemic!
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Post by Alundaio Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:04 am

Diseases that make other players sick!?
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Post by Lasombra Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:22 pm

Me in!
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Post by daveyeisley Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:30 pm

As long as remove disease and disease immunity still work, I am all for this idea.
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Post by Amethyst347 Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:03 am

Wait, you guys *want* to have/spread these crazy diseases around Aenea?!

Sick, sick people I tell you... Magical disease:  Farstep Fever (an example) Icon_wink
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Post by Eric of Atrophy Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:13 pm

Hey, I had another brainstorm about the whole disease thing...

Wouldn't it be cool if cure disease would only work in conjunction with a PC possessing a specific herbal mixture? That would certainly increase the allure/usage of the herbalism skill...

Could also create a need for herbalist NPCs - have several of them scattered about the lands. In the Vale, the herbalist would only make one or two of the more common mixtures, requiring travel for more exotic diseases. As one went geographically further out (Mountainholm, Macedone, Calithia, Forge, etc.), herbalist NPCs would become more specialized (and expensive) ... "The only herbalist who can cure the Deadfoot Curse has a small shop somewhere in Calithia's Copper Ward ... or so I've heard..."

Also, PC could have initial limited access to herbal cures made by self - say there are 20 progressively nasty diseases with 20 corresponding herbal mixtures... PC could only make the basic herbal mixture until herbalism skill percentage is above a certain number; once that goal is achieved, the PC can access the next tier of mixtures.

Also, a possession limitation/restriction could be added to said herbal mixtures, say, 1 per PC at a time. IC explanation could be that the herbal components are delicate, and if not consumed promptly will get stale/lose potency/etc...

What say ye?
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Post by Eric of Atrophy Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:15 pm

And, yes, Amethyst347, spreading the disease to other PCs would be helluva cool!

[Odd ... Queensryche comes to mind ... Magical disease:  Farstep Fever (an example) Icon_twisted ]
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Post by MannyJabrielle Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:17 pm

Aenean Rule #4: Eric must submit to mandatory testing before any social gathering.
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Post by half_evil_333 Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:50 am

Eric of Atrophy wrote:And, yes, Amethyst347, spreading the disease to other PCs would be helluva cool!

[Odd ... Queensryche comes to mind ... Magical disease:  Farstep Fever (an example) Icon_twisted ]

Yeah, and Anthrax and Disturbed Magical disease:  Farstep Fever (an example) Icon_geek

*goes off headbanging*

As for the topic: although the idea of strengthen the disease is neat, I think it's a bit of an unbalanced thing. I mean, all the warrior types and dwarves out there probably would be far less affected by it than the mages and sorcerers and rogues and elves. And also, while epic chars won't pay much attention to it due to ridiculous high saving throws and / or immunity to disease, low level newbie chars would need to be given an ABC protective suit so they have a chance of actually surviving their first encounters without being infected around every corner (I know most of you probably play level 30+ chars most of you time, so let me assure you: getting sick / intoxicated already IS a thread on pre-epic levels for every class / race that isn't big into fortitude saves. Getting encumbered due to sudden loss of strength so you can't run away from enemies any more and being nearly unable to hit anythig in melee or getting your hp reduced due to constitution loss so your already not too tough char is even more fragile can really suck already Magical disease:  Farstep Fever (an example) Icon_rolleyes).
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Post by Lasombra Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:01 am

Frankly, I could count the times I got diseased/poisoned on my fingers, and most of those were gotten by rolling 1(diseases, not fingers Magical disease:  Farstep Fever (an example) Icon_razz). Seeing as mages aren't supposed to be directly whacking on things with their staves(at least on lower levels) I don't find their saves much of an issue either. Rogues perhaps have the shorter end of the stick though.

Anyway, you have a point it would further increase the gap between high- and low-level chars if anyone could get diseased. That's why I think such dangers should only be provided by situations and places meant for those higher level guys(for example Dark Realm when it's done).
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Post by daveyeisley Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:45 am

I would have to say I dont like the idea of nerfing the remove disease spell and class ability by requiring reagents to use it.

Haveing herbalism allow for curing of diseases *without* the spell or the ability? Sure, fine, excellent, makes the skill attractive.

For those PCs who have the spell and memorize it, or have the class ability, they are supposed to not have to worry overmuch about diseases. I mean, they still suffer from the initial infection... but it shouldnt have time to incubate.
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Post by evilkittenofdoom Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:15 am

Rather then make the spell require a reagent, how about having the spell affect certain diseases via standard spell/ability, and for the more advanced diseases have a % to remove it, increased by CL (Paladin level for the paladin feat) and by using a reagent (much like the XP bonus, but instead, it would add a 5-10% chance to remove it). I'd actually go as far as saying using this sort of system for remove poison as well.

Basically, why not make it like the Find and Disarm traps spell. Finds/Disarms traps based on CL.

Getting diseased is pretty much a moot point once you get immunity or can purchase Greater Restoration scrolls... but it is a neat idea, and I'd be all for it.
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Post by daveyeisley Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:24 am

I really dont think remove disease ,whether it be the spell or the class ability, need to be changed in at all. If a PC has access to them, I dont see a reason why that PC should have to worry about failing to cure themself. I also think this would screw low level PCs more than high level PCs, as high level PCs have more ways to handle the drawbacks of a disease.... and things are already more than tough enough on low level PCs.

As for the teleporting disease, the more I think about it, the more it sounds like a curse to me rather than a disease.
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Post by Eric of Atrophy Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:58 am

Let me open this by saying that I see everyone's point - you folks have brought some excellent discussion angles to the subject, and I thank you for that.

Curse, disease - I would consider it an affliction. But that's beside the point - my suggestion (and it's not exclusively for the farstep fever, that's just an example I thought of) is merely to increase teh variety of inconveniences that the PC faces, as I find the generic "disease" to be very bland and not very ... noteworthy.

I could roll with it as a curse, and possibly have a quest to find a special item/serum/NPC to cure it - that would be boss!

As far as level goes, don't forget that 98% of me PCs are under 20 level - I've got 2 at level 22, and one is sitting at 37. None are reincarnated, and none are ascended. So I have thought about how new diseases would affect the lower-level PC, and it doesn't trouble me too much - I think it could be balanced for lower levels, while still making itself a nuisance for higher-level PCs.

Variety, after all, is the spice of life - why not make it the spice of disease, too? Magical disease:  Farstep Fever (an example) Icon_twisted
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Post by daveyeisley Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:38 am

Eric of Atrophy wrote:
As far as level goes, don't forget that 98% of me PCs are under 20 level - I've got 2 at level 22, and one is sitting at 37. None are reincarnated, and none are ascended. So I have thought about how new diseases would affect the lower-level PC, and it doesn't trouble me too much - I think it could be balanced for lower levels, while still making itself a nuisance for higher-level PCs.

Variety, after all, is the spice of life - why not make it the spice of disease, too? Magical disease:  Farstep Fever (an example) Icon_twisted

I hadnt forgotten about the bulk of your PCs, quite the contrary. But you also need to remember that while you may enjoy having the nuisance of diseases to deal with, most other players probably dont. I know I get frustrated when one of my lower level PCs makes a bad roll and loses stat points in various places and begins to suffer in both combat and travel as a result.... things like encumbrance, lowerec casting stats and loss of spell slots, and lowered AC and AB which leads to deaths in combat if the condition isnt cured and the penalties then cured as well.

For me, I can deal with that stuff, as long as its not a major hassle and is also not a common occurrence.
Make it more common, or more of a hassle, and the frustration level rises, and the fun quotient declines.

Lower level PCs, no mater who is playing them or what thier challenge preferences are, dont have the same resources as higher level PCS and hence will be more troubled by such things. Considering that lower level PCs also have lower stats, less money, and more threat of death and a harder time gaining XP... changes to class abilities and spells like remove disease would only aggravate that situation. I just dont think there is much need for that.

If a player has a higher level PC, sure they can handle such things a bit more easily. If that player decides they dont want to be bothered, and obtains a method of protection from disease, or an immunity, then it should work as they intend it to. For folks who dont want that type of protection, they need not seek such items or bonuses, whether it be custom vouchers or ascension, etc.

So basically, to make stuff like diseases affect high level PCs without screwing low level PCs with those same afflictions, I think its very important to allow the game's built in cures/abilities/resistances/immunities to work the same way they do now. It allows them to retain value, which they should have. Avoiding those mechanics is best left to an individuals player's choice.

New afflictions I think would be cool to see, I just have issues with the idea of making them significantly harder to deal with than the current ones.
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Post by daveyeisley Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:10 am

Another thought:

For players who want to have a more challenging experience with various things, such as new diseases and harder to cure diseases, perhaps there could be a VC option that can be toggled based on player choice?
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Post by Eric of Atrophy Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:27 pm

daveyeisley wrote:Another thought:

For players who want to have a more challenging experience with various things, such as new diseases and harder to cure diseases, perhaps there could be a VC option that can be toggled based on player choice?
And dave brings an excellent suggestion to the table! Viva! I love the way that sounds!

And I completely agree with you, that losing stats due to disease stinks! That's why I brainstormed the Farstep Fever affliction ... to give a viable alternative to the standard brown-bar-stat-loss disease. Diseases, afflictions, curses that have different components to them that make them less of a bummer and more of a challenge.

Ok, here's another one ... The Cat Plague (or the Cat-astrophe Curse, whichever you prefer) ... periodically the PC is surrounded by a number of pesky cats! That would be particularly hard on sneaky-types, as a cloud of howling cats could put quite a hurting on stealth attempts! And invisibility, for that matter - it would let the cat out of the bag about the PC's location!

Just say NO to disease, and say Yes to affliction!


Last edited by Eric of Atrophy on Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:28 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : (I've been the subject of a daveyeisley critical point post! That maketh me happy!))
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Post by Eric of Atrophy Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:34 pm

And I could feel not adjusting the standard cure disease mechanisms - the afflictions could always be scripted to utilize the herbalism skill/NPCs as an avenue of resolution. And like dave said, if you want to take standard disease damage, you're good to go. But if you desire the more exotic affliction, then toggle YES! And let the Farstep Fevers and The Cat Plagues begin!
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Post by Amethyst347 Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:47 am

I actually kinda like the Cat Plague idea. Amusing and only vaguely aggravating, as opposed to full on hair-pulling-out extravaganza. Magical disease:  Farstep Fever (an example) Icon_smile

Or maybe I'm just biased cuz I like cats.
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Post by Alundaio Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:19 pm

There are a lot of cool diseases in Nwn. But I've never seen most of them (Only ever seen the ones that do ability damage) because I always pass the fort save twice in a row or just plain get it cured before it happens. I usually play low fort save characters too. I don't think I ever came down with a disease in any of the main modules and I usually play rogues.

I like the spreadable diseases idea. Adding in a vc command to allow contraction of spreadable diseases can be added along with it. Toss in monsters or traps that give it out in some low - mid level areas and it'll be some added difficulty.

One that plays the vomit animation every 10 seconds would be funny.

You can cure disease with herbalism but it shouldn't be the only way to cure it.

*Edit*

Oh and diseases should be more fun. I really hate ability score ones. They ARE annoying. Especially the str one. Walking encumbered all the way too the healer is not a nice way to spend game time. So more fun realistic diseases would be nice. Farstep Fever would be more fun then it would be annoying if it was done correctly.
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Post by daveyeisley Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:48 pm

I just see random teleports of low level PCs into highly dangerous areas..... Imagine your poor level 8 rogue porting into the beholder tunnels.... that an extreme example of course, but I am sure you get the point.

The critical phrase is "if done correctly". And to do it correctly would be a LOT of extra work filtering what list of places would be appropriate for each victim to be ported to.
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:50 pm

If I did one that randomly teleported people, I'd just make it use the waypoints I've already got set up for the farstep potion (30 predetermined, but randomly selected locations).

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Post by Eric of Atrophy Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:08 pm

The Amethyst Dragon wrote:If I did one that randomly teleported people, I'd just make it use the waypoints I've already got set up for the farstep potion (30 predetermined, but randomly selected locations).
That's exactly along the lines that I was thinking ... most of the farstep destinations are harmless (note that I said "most" of them), but I'm sure teh affliction scripts could be edited to only use the less-offensive destinations - although I have never farstepped into the beholder tunnels, I have had several bad experiences with K'nort Scrar! (Dead Jane was REALLY dead after 'stepping in the one time. Dara-erez, on the other hand, not so much...)

Again, I can't stress it enough, this thread is about thinking of new ways to pizzazz up the old disease mechanics. Stat and hp damage is just plain ... plain. So go nuts with those ideas of "what would be playable, but not suck?"
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Post by Eric of Atrophy Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:30 am

daveyeisley wrote:The critical phrase is "if done correctly".
Dave, have you forgotten whose world we're playing in? Magical disease:  Farstep Fever (an example) Icon_razz
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Post by daveyeisley Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:30 am

Eric of Atrophy wrote:
daveyeisley wrote:The critical phrase is "if done correctly".
Dave, have you forgotten whose world we're playing in? Magical disease:  Farstep Fever (an example) Icon_razz

Yeah, I guess I have. Who are you people?
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Post by RustyDios Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:02 am

How about an Infection of the Fish ..... caught from eating bad fish... spending too much time underwater, etc...... which basically applies the "drowning scripts" randomly every hour.... all the normal water-breathing stuff negates it... but once infected can only be removed by a certain triton-king in his underwater stonehendge (near the quickflow!)... which of cause involves the risk of re-infection.. !!!......
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Post by daveyeisley Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:17 am

RustyDios wrote:How about an Infection of the Fish ..... caught from eating bad fish... spending too much time underwater, etc...... which basically applies the "drowning scripts" randomly every hour.... all the normal water-breathing stuff negates it... but once infected can only be removed by a certain triton-king in his underwater stonehendge (near the quickflow!)... which of cause involves the risk of re-infection.. !!!......

interesting idea. Method of curing i think should be a little less specific, or it could be pretty aggravating.
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Post by Eric of Atrophy Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:13 pm

Heya, now you've got it! Let's have more!
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