Feb. 19, 2011: Item Property Change (AC Bonus)

Not sure how many people this will really affect, but one version of an item property has now been changed with the latest hak update.

AC Bonus

This has changed for most weapons (not for slings or thrown weapons). Instead of a deflection bonus, any magical AC bonus on a weapon is now a shield bonus (even if the item description says otherwise). I see it more as using the weapon to parry (get in the way of) incoming attacks, just like a shield, rather than creating a magical deflection field around the wielder.

Yes, I know that technically parrying is deflecting an opposing weapon, but so is a shield in many cases. I'm going on a conceptual view: a shield physically gets in the way of things, deflection is more like a forcefield that pushes things away before they even come in contact with you.

So, what's this mean for you if your weapon doesn't have an AC Bonus item property? Not a thing.

What's this mean for you if your weapon does have an AC Bonus item property? The bonus will no longer stack if also using a shield, but will now stack if using a cloak, ring, or helmet that grants an AC bonus.

The property is unchanged for any other item types.

I like the sound of this .. Finally means dual-wielders will be able to get an additional +5AC from the shield sub-type ...

What I don't like is that this will potentially make EVERYBODY a dual-wielder as there will be no point to shields in Aenea ..(as long as you have an AC granting weapon) ... What bonus comes from having a shield ? (other then the pittance of "normal shield AC" 1-3 points, compared to another attack + damage) ...

RustyDios wrote:I like the sound of this .. Finally means dual-wielders will be able to get an additional +5AC from the shield sub-type ...

What I don't like is that this will potentially make EVERYBODY a dual-wielder as there will be no point to shields in Aenea ..(as long as you have an AC granting weapon) ... What bonus comes from having a shield ? (other then the pittance of "normal shield AC" 1-3 points, compared to another attack + damage) ...

Archers will benefit, too.

But since DW seems to take decent prereqs to do well (eg; 15+ DEX, Ranger and light armor, etc), and with more decent shields like Fortress, I do not forsee a huge problem. Maybe more weight reduced shields, too?

RustyDios wrote:I like the sound of this .. Finally means dual-wielders will be able to get an additional +5AC from the shield sub-type ...

What I don't like is that this will potentially make EVERYBODY a dual-wielder as there will be no point to shields in Aenea ..(as long as you have an AC granting weapon) ... What bonus comes from having a shield ? (other then the pittance of "normal shield AC" 1-3 points, compared to another attack + damage) ...

For AC addicts, that +3 base AC is still valuable. Add in that effective duel wielding will still require the ambi/TWF feats to keep the AB hit low... it may still be more effective for a PC to go sword-n-board should they not have the stat points and/or feats to spare

Good points... and I suppose for some of the benefits out there for shields, and the much more versatile properties placed on shields they will still have a use ....

And I never considered how awesome this is for archers too (able to get the shield bonus, and for two-handed weapon fighters)...

Providing that shields continue to have properties that no weapon could ever get, shields are still a bonus... but how about as an extra bonus we think about doubling the "normal shield AC" from 1-3 ... to 2-6 , just to make shields that more inviting to use then two-weapons.... ...

Maybe it's just me that the lure of having an extra attack (or two), with +5AC without having to carry around a heavy shield, seems to outweigh the benefit of having an upto +8AC Shield .... .... ....



Still the change has more benefits then negatives, so I think it's still good ...

Dual wielding does not always fit everyone's style (even every character's style), plus you could have an AC bonus from weapons before...it was just a deflection bonus before. And it will still require a magical property to get (unlike shields which grant AC automatically witout magic). Also, shields that carry a magical AC bonus are granting a shield bonus higher than their nonmagical counterparts, so they are still better protection than a weapon enchanted to give the same AC bonuses.

Also, you can self-upgrade any shield easily to +5, whereas doing the same to a weapon will require DM intervention via the Dwarf or Maker.

Love it.

... Another player mentioned to me that he was dying relatively quickly, saying he was buying/and using around 30 "high grade" healing potions(he didn't actually mention which potion type) in a hour, at Lv6 fighting goblins and brown bears.. as a new player he was thinking there was something he was doing wrong here.... with AC23, and 60ish HP.... using a shortsword..

So I switched from beholder hunting and went to find something that has a bit more physical pow....

... I noticed that I was taking physical damage from nearly everything, traps included... like I was wearing no armour at all and had no saves..

... I'm yet to look at the log's, however every single hit was appearing to hit Wanda for around 30 hitpoints a piece... she was dying quicker then I could spam full heals.. and at Lv23, with just over 250hp, with AC30... a couple (note 2 or 3) Blue Dragon Wyrmlings should not be able to take a Pure Classed Paladin down and out quicker then the time it takes to light a smoke!...... ... I've gone and made a hot drink and left her in the midst of the Orc Training Camp before and come back without a scratch?!? (with a ring of remains around her) ...


This change is the only thing I can think has been added recently that may effect things in this way... she might as well have been stood naked, caught flat-footed ....

Is anyone else finding that physical fighting is "a little off"... ??

Haven't seen anything off so far, but I'll keep my eyes peeled, just in case ...

One of my lowbies was aptly killed when his armor spell was dispelled; uncertain if any added bonuses to mummies were involved.

Question, will this affect how AC bonus on a monks gloves work?

It would be awesome if it did... as monks can use their hands/gloves to parry just like a fighter can with a sword....

If the change does not currently affect gloves/gauntlets, I would like to ask that it be made to do so.

Bracers, on the other hand, are fine as they are, I think.

This change doesn't affect gloves or gauntlets. Monks are the only ones that would logically be able to block weapons with their hands (like they do with Deflect Arrows), and the type of AC bonus can't be changed depending on the class or feats of the wearer.

Deflect arrows isn't a monk-only feat though. Any class can get it.

The only difference really between an unarmed monk and an unarmed fighter is monks get the feats for free, and have more APR (although at a lower BAB)

MannyJabrielle wrote:Deflect arrows isn't a monk-only feat though. Any class can get it.

The only difference really between an unarmed monk and an unarmed fighter is monks get the feats for free, and have more APR (although at a lower BAB)

What he said lol...

I just wanted to bump this because I truly feel strongly that unarmed characters should be able to use gauntlets/gloves to block weapons (and hence should also be able to get the shield-type AC bonus).

Deflect arrows can be taken as a general feat. It is not monk specific, nor is blocking weapons without a weapon or shield. In plenty of movies that feature archaic combat there are scenes where a dude with a gauntlet will slap away or even grab the business end of an opponent's weapon with his gauntlet.

Not allowing gauntlets to grant the shield AC bonus effectively penalizes unarmed PCs for no good reason. Everyone else can get that bonus whether they use 2 weapons or shield... but unarmed PCs would have neither... and should have the same ability to block.

If anything, parrying with a weapon would be more difficult and require more skill and practice than using the hand. The hand is faster and more natural to use in a blocking motion... all it lacks is physical protection from the weapon it is blocking, and gauntlets provide that.

It would be easy to implement as well AFAIK.. the CEP already has bracers/gauntlets that use the Sheld AC type... ((although they are an "unsupported item type" by the Player Reward FAQ))...

I am guessing the change that was made to the AC bonus type for weapons was done with a .2da edit. It should be simple to do the same with gauntlets.