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Weapon Focus Feat Change and Improved Critical Feat Change

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Post by Hephaestus Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:33 am

I am trying to edit my .2da file to change feats for weapon focus and improved critical feats so they are like Turbine's DDO. Where you have the Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons which includes all bludgeoning weapons and Weapon Focus Slashing Weapons includes all slashing weapons. As well as changing the Improved Critical Feat so that it does not stack with the Keen property. But to be blunt, I am terrible of editing the .2da files. Would you care to implement something like that in Aenea? And if you do take up my suggestion would you care to help me learn how to edit the .2da file so I can make feat changes and such on my own? Smile I went to sites like http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/.2da, but I could never get the hang of it. Thanks in advance.
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Post by Elhanan Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:08 am

Techless One here. While I am of no aid on the editing code, I do want to plead for no such changes to Aenea.

From this Player's POV, it makes little sense to me that one would want to make the game easier for Weapon Focus, then make it more difficult and remove Stacking Crits. Personally, I believe the current rules are relatively balanced, as the weapons used for extreme Crits are Kukri, Rapier, and Scimitar; all light damage weapons as a base. They may crit more often, but do less damage overall, I believe. And relaxing the rules on WF seems to make the Warrior classes much more powerful, making Bonus Feats even more controlling for the game.
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Post by RustyDios Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:33 am

Whilst it would be highly possible to add a check into the "OnEquipped" event handler that checked the type of weapon equipped and applied a +1 attack bonus if the character also had the feat listing, it would take an awful lot of time to code and that bonus would not be able to stack correctly with anything else.

The major problem with the "weapon" feats is that they are all hardcoded into the game engine. There is no way to add/change/improve them that makes them better/different from the default.

Weapon feats include;
Weapon Focus
Epic Weapon Focus
Weapon Specialization
Epic Weapon Specialization
Improved Critical
Overwhelming Critical
Devastating Critical
Superior Weapon Focus
Epic Superior Weapon Focus
..basically any feat that forces you to pick a specific weapon as a focal point.


And why would you NOT want improved critical stacking with keen?... I can see no reason to do this game balance or logic wise... The way I see it; improved critical stems from the users proficiency with the weapon and keen stems from the actually quality of the weapon...
The way that someone knows how to stab a sword into flesh then spin the blade whilst slicing outwards for more gore is just made even more potent by that super sharp tipped, serrated and holed blade that can rip more flesh on its route through an enemy.
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Post by Hephaestus Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:54 am

Yea you are right. I will go play on DDO with everyone else.
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:34 am

A 2da edit would not work for combining Weapon Focus feats into broad categories.  Like RustyDios mentioned, such feats are hardcoded into the game engine itself.  The same goes for the stacking of Keen and Improved Critical.

Not something I'd implement in Aenea anyway, but I can see another builder wanting that for their own module.  Unfortunately, it just isn't possible without being able to modify the game engine.

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Post by Hephaestus Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:33 pm

That is fine. I doubt anything is really not possible in software. All of my experience says usually people betting on it can't be done in software lose that bet. But I am sure that is not a rule but rather a tendency. So I am guessing this is more about the will than anything which is fine. What I love about NWN and NWN2 is that you can build whatever you want. That is the idea. Smile This was posted under suggestions because I am not telling you how to run your mod just making a suggestion.
On another note, you did not answer probably the most important part. Which was would you be interested in helping me learn how to edit a .2da file the right way. Like make a new feat or class? Once again, not telling you to. I know you are very very busy with I am sure much much more important things. I am just suggesting.
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Post by Hephaestus Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:34 pm

I forgot to say thank you for answering. I usually try to make a habit of that because it is a good habit in my opinion. So thanks to everyone who answered.
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Post by RustyDios Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:13 pm

Okay. Yes it could be done. By editing and hacking and reprogramming the actual core game, in such a fashion that you are in effect having to create NWN v1.70.
The weapon feats are hardcoded into the engine. There is no way to add or override them without breaking into the actual code that was made by Bioware. Doing that will put you at risk for copyright and piracy/hacking laws/infringement. There are some things that are just simply not possible in the game. This is one of them.

A workaround could be sort of made(as I said before), but it just wouldn't function correctly with everything taken into account. In effect you would be introducing a bugged feature, which is no fun for anybody.

That's not to say that your suggestions were not good or not considered. They were good, just not feasible. In my experience every suggestion put here for Aenea is at least read and considered as valid if it can be done and if ADagrees that is a good step for the world as a whole. Just look at all the used and part-used suggestions threads. There is an awful lot that has already been implemented based on player feedback. So keep suggesting things you think of !

--------------

Now on to the .2da editing question. I've never really done it. That is I've merged files before by copying lines from "person A 2da" into "person B 2da" and then re-numbering the lines. I've not created a new feat or class from scratch before.

2da files are in general a very easy to read and edit format. They can be opened by any text editor (such as Windows notepad or notepad++ ) and work the same way as any normal table of information.

The left hand column is an ascending numerical value that lets the game read what is on that line when referenced by a script in game. The top row is the type of data held for the column below it.

Any ( spaces ) anywhere tell the game to move on to the next column (with "extra" spaces ignored, the next bit of text will be considered the next columns information). So for reading some of the 2da's it helps to copy the info into a spreadsheet format and line things up correctly. Just note that the game can't read from a spreadsheet format any changes made will have to be in a text editor. It sometimes helps to turn "word wrapping" in notepad off and manually putting spaces to line things up.

**** is used to denote that there is no information for this column for the row in question.

Adding something new will require knowledge in 2da editing (to get it in game), script writing (so that using it does something), .tlk editing (for the in game description), icon editing (so it has an image to use).. and likely some other stuff too.

For adding a feat you will need to change the feats.2da and then likely add your feat to the bottom of the/all the CLS_FEAT_XXX.2da so that the class/es can gain the feat you have created. You will possibly have to edit the spells.2da too, as there is a column in the feats 2da that is for "SPELLID" which links to the numbers in that for feats that can be activated (as they function just like them - through the running of a script, which you will also have to create).

For adding a new class.... sorry way above my head to even contemplate putting together a useful answer.


I hope that was a little more helpful to you and starts you off down the road that you want to travel. Smile
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:31 pm

Hephaestus wrote:That is fine. I doubt anything is really not possible in software. All of my experience says usually people betting on it can't be done in software lose that bet. But I am sure that is not a rule but rather a tendency. So I am guessing this is more about the will than anything which is fine. What I love about NWN and NWN2 is that you can build whatever you want. That is the idea. Smile This was posted under suggestions because I am not telling you how to run your mod just making a suggestion.
On another note, you did not answer probably the most important part. Which was would you be interested in helping me learn how to edit a .2da file the right way. Like make a new feat or class? Once again, not telling you to. I know you are very very busy with I am sure much much more important things. I am just suggesting.
Suggestions are always welcome, even if I never use them. Smile

For the tasks of adding a new feat or class, how about starting a brand new thread or two over in the OOC: Building & Scripting section?  That way space can be devoted to that without mixing in specifics of one suggestion.

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Post by A_Vagabond Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:15 am

Hephaestus wrote:That is fine. I doubt anything is really not possible in software. All of my experience says usually people betting on it can't be done in software lose that bet. But I am sure that is not a rule but rather a tendency. So I am guessing this is more about the will than anything which is fine. What I love about NWN and NWN2 is that you can build whatever you want. That is the idea. Smile This was posted under suggestions because I am not telling you how to run your mod just making a suggestion.
On another note, you did not answer probably the most important part. Which was would you be interested in helping me learn how to edit a .2da file the right way. Like make a new feat or class? Once again, not telling you to. I know you are very very busy with I am sure much much more important things. I am just suggesting.
What is possible is a workaround, as has been mentioned above. You could decide, for example, to create a new feat Weapon Focus: Blunt, and then have the engine check at level up, if that feat is present, and force-add all of the blunt weapon feats to the PC. It would be a little messy on the character sheet, but that would work in a better way than forcing a +1 OnEquip (which I agree is less-than optimal). Likewise with Imp. Crit.

To prevent imp crit from stacking, that's another matter entirely. Again, it could be done, but it would involve quite a bit of OnEquip, OnUnEquip as well as spell hooks into Keen Edge type spells. These checks would have to remove the property if the PC has the feat, and re-instate the property OnUnEquip -- as well as tracking if it's a temp. or permanent property. Not a task I would want to take, for sure!

I always hated messing with OnEquip/Unequip scripts, since they have a lot of lag potential. If you wanted, you could fake the first feat (Weapon Focus) by applying and removing the individual feats as needed. This would make the PC sheet cleaner at the cost of more cycles/more lag potential. As to the crit thing, I think it's more than it's worth, but that's a value call, if you wanted to put in the time.
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Post by gutwrench66kg Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:39 am

A bit late to the party on this one..

When you say that "I doubt anything is really not possible in software. All of my experience says usually people betting on it can't be done in software lose that bet. But I am sure that is not a rule but rather a tendency. So I am guessing this is more about the will than anything which is fine."

Depends on which level you're looking at it from, how you implement it, what it finally looks like, etc.

Having had worked on a number of NWN teams (some that have had professionally published work), There are things that can be done, and things that can't.

Get out a 1.66 copy of NWN, import the 2da files that include the usage of cloak models, etc.. and try to use an equippable cloak. Try and use the SetPhenotype commands to make a dynamic change to a character phenotype... You can't.

Create a new ranged weapon, define an ammunition type for it, and try to fire it. Make a new weapon to use with weapon finesse. Create a bridge tile that you can walk over AND under like you might do in Oblivion or Skyrim. Make a new shield baseitem, or perhaps new categories to use the torch animation..  None of these work either.

Those ALL require engine level changes, and BioWare didn't hand out the source code to the Aurora engine.

It's not that there isn't "a will to do it", it's that the hardcoded engine will not allow it.

There are tweaks that can be faked and  made via script, tweaks that can be done via 2da edit, and tweaks that really can't be made.

e.g. Playing as an archer type on a different server, after completing a large quest to unlock "epic" levels, I was also entitled to a reward item of my own designing. I was informed the item I wanted was impossible. Not that it "Wasn't allowed", but that it was actually impossible to implement.  Thus started my delving into the world of item 2da files and associated tweaks.

By changing 1's and 0's in 2da files, You can either enable, or disable features. The workaround you're going to want to try for your own project

DDO has their engine designed around the idea that the weapon focus/weapon spec. feats all work on an item category.  Looking at the comment that "relaxing the rules on them makes warrior types more overpowered" is a little out of proportion.. it's a +1 to hit via weapon focus, a whole +2 to damage via weapon spec, etc..  The items I've seen floating around on server, the least concern is a +1 to hit or doubling the crit. range of a weapon..  If my character is skilled with a Dwarven Waraxe and gets a +1 to hit, he's probably pretty talented with a handaxe or battleaxe as well.. that +1 isn't unreasonable.  That said, NWN doesn't allow for that universal feat anyway.. it would require outside scripting, a constant +1 effect applied via on-equip/unequip scripting..  which would also detract from other bonuses (e.g. True strike as a spell would then really only offer a +19 to hit for that roll..)

The weapon focus issue is hard to work around.. Keen however is VERY easy to work around.

takes the following edits.

itemprops.2da
iprp_feats.2da

Might take a spells.2da tweak as well.

You'll also have to edit every keen object in your module as well.

Items can have bonus feats on them, they're currently limited by iprp_feats.2da.
You'll have to edit it to include every improved critical feat (can find those in feats.2da)

edit your keen edge spell, or anything that provides the keen property to an item (if you have a keen edge oil in module, etc..)  Those need to be edited to provide the improved critical feat for that item type instead.  Voila.. improved crit range, doesn't stack.

Now, on the opposite end of the spectrum, I went and did something different with my projects. I opened up the itemprops.2da so that I could offer a much larger variety of items to players.. instead of just adding another +1 and +1 and +1 to gear to make it more powerful, I opted to broaden the spectrum.

That gave us limitless options in making new objects for players.

Enhanced  bows that had the keen property attached to them (Mighty requires a STR score.. these are just very deadly precise bows instead)

a halfling paladin is wandering around with a holy avenger Sling.

A Dwarven defender carrying a tower shield that applies an attack penalty

and so on, and so forth.
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