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Post by Pagan on Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:25 pm

Totally NEW to server ... me and my crew are trying to figure it out .. everyone getting diffrent exp .. one of my friends stuck at basicly 10 exp for everything we do .. one is getting alot .. looking for a way to gauge the levels of mobs to fight so we know were we can go hunt as a group ... ok .. i UNDERSTAND .. you all want the new players to explore and learn stuff from scratch and all that because u belive if not it takes away from the game .. but u gotta understand .. not everyone enjoys that style of play for maximum fun for them .. or like me has wife and kids so my play time is Very Very limited so when i log on my lvl 4 bard i spend 2 hours looking for places to fight .. not killing anything and death got me 1 time .. then my play time is over back to real life it makes the whole thing a frustrateing experiance for me and my crew .. any assistance on were to hunt at what levels to yield good exp if you dont have all day to play would be nice ... thank you ... (( MY BAD !! )) .. how can u move this post to the Player Questions Section of the forums plz ....
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Post by MannyJabrielle on Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:24 pm

The Amethyst Dragon can move the post when he sees it Smile

As for XP questions:

What XP you get is subject to your subrace penalties (if any) and multiclass penalties (if any).  These penalties are taken into account as the XP is earned.  So, a regular human and a vampire human of the same classes and levels kill the same kind of creature.  The human may gain 100 XP while the vampire human will gain 75.  That is because the vampire has a 25% subrace penalty (or somewhere around there).

As for group play.  I'm not positive about the numbers other than level differences (which is a pretty large margin, 20 levels difference before it matters).  I do know that more members will reduce the XP but I'm not sure by how much.

As for what to hunt... depends.  I'm not overly familiar with how much XP each kind of critter gives at what lowbie levels, BUT, I can say that if goblins are giving you just 10, try the drow temple.  If drow warriors are giving you just ten, try golems.

Trolls should always give a slightly higher amount than normal, as they have a little bonus XP awarded given how much of a PITA they are to kill.

Mummies are good to try out too.  You can find them in desert areas Wink

Mindflayers should be a good source of XP for low levels.  They can dish out damage, but on the upside, they do drop decent loot which helps funding of healing potions and defensive potions.

There's a bandit hideout somewhere around Mountainholm.  The regular bandits may only give 10xp, however they tend to be large groups, so while the XP per individual isn't profitable, the XP for the whole group is decent, especially if you possess means to take them out fast (AoE's of some sort).

Orcs could be a good source too.  There's a variety of them.  Regular orc soliders, dragon acolytes, destroyers.  The destroyers may be a good bit on the tough side for lowbies, but they provide decent XP even into epic levels.  They tend to be rare though (random spawnings and all).

Death Island is always a good place to go mucking around.  There's a large variety of stuff that'll spawn there.  I tend to think of it as the zoo-of-horrors.  You could run into anything from beholders to dragons to scarecrows to twig blights to... well, you get the idea, it's like a zoo over there.

The kill per average enemy isn't going to be large unless it's CR is high (relatively speaking of course.... what is easy for a fighter type to kill could give a mage type a very hard time.... what a mage could zap dead in an instant could likewise steamroll a fighter type no problem).

There will always be certain enemies that give a decent amount of XP, they tend to be "boss" types.  Dracoliches, elder beholders, ect.  These guys tend to be tough to kill, and will give a couple hundred to a couple thousand XP dependingon your level.  But yeah, the average enemy isn't going to be giving out triple digit XP numbers.  Especially if they're "lower level" than you (relatively again of course).

The min XP per kill will rise as you rise in level though.  I forget the exact figure, but my 40th level characters will get 33 to 40 XP (depending on their subrace penalties) for killing any highly squishable goblin or orc.

So sometimes, the best XP grinding strategy may not necessarily be to find something that gives high levels of XP per individual kill, but find something that spawns a LOT of baddies, and lots of baddies you can mow down like crazy.

And sacrifice loot.  The XP from sacrificing kills is random, but it's also based on the value of the sacrifice, and can at times net you a decent dose of XP as your'e grinding along.
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Post by Lasombra on Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:56 pm

From what I seem to remember the system adjusts XP gain both ways; it's reduced if you're tackling something way out of your league. But today I was testing it with two low lvl players and one of them has gained 10XP from killing a beholder [solo, though it was incapacitated beforehand], which hasn't happened to me when I went there at his level with reincarnated characters. It also doesn't happen to his friend only one level away, who gains expected hundreds.
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:15 pm

Typing up a thorough explanation of the XP system.  Will post when finished tonight (I'm refereeing an 11 year old's birthday party at the moment).

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Post by MannyJabrielle on Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:56 pm

The Amethyst Dragon wrote:I'm refereeing an 11 year old's birthday party at the moment
Just type "I'm in the insane-asylum".  Less letters to type and pretty close to the mark too Wink

Happy birthday to the junior dragon!
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:09 pm

Why yes, the player known as dragon_son1 did turn 11 yesterday. Smile

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Post by daveyeisley on Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:13 pm

Happy Bday to Dragon_son1!!!  cheers

Now, for the TL;DR - we need to make leveling less tedious, and while there would be a lot of work to do, it should be possible, and would improve the world for newcomers and veterans alike.


Detailed non-TL;DR stuff:

I have been privy to numerous discussion about how it was 'too easy' to gain xp in certain places, which have been 'nerfed' as a result. I think this was a move in the wrong direction.

This seems to be intended to make players 'work' for their progression and is supposed to instill a sense of having 'earned' it. 

This works in theory for folks who have no issue investing the time and effort to slug through the lower levels, and slowly learn how Aenea works in order to blossom into a more steady progression afterwards. In my experience, however, the lower levels are simply *painful* and discourage me from making new low-level PCs. Too much tedium, hassle, and frustration.

What I think would be the better direction is to *improve* the rewards for the rest of the content offered, so that it is comparatively attractive.

When I got started here, the low levels started a little slow while you were learning the first few areas and quests, but it picked up pretty fast after about level 7 or 8. That was OK by me.You could get a lucky drop off a bandit mage that would make you some serious money, and make gear upgrades available to really boost your PCs capabilities. Then you were off and running.

From 8 to 28 or so, it was not too terrible of a grind, and the exploration and discovery was engaging and fun despite occasional setbacks. Now, it seems like the low levels up to around 10 or 12 are just terrible. My opinion, of course. I do have something like 6 or 7 lower level PCs that every time I get the urge to try and level them, I log on, play for an hour and make so little progress (despite all I know about Aenea - which is not insignificant) that I end up logging them off, and either playing one of my 'big guns' just to enjoy the benefits of having paid their dues, or I just go play a different game.

At level 28, back then, things seemed to grind to a halt. Hitting level 40 was an arduous process until you figured out the few 'tricks' that could be used - and I mean 'few'. The Dark Realm was created to address the high-level progression 'bottleneck' but there is simply too much low level rubbish that offers pittance for reward to make it worth venturing there for level 20 PCs... and if you do go there at level 20, you slog through the peons and eventually hit the epic content, only to find you are horribly outclassed in most cases.

The Dark Realm introductory areas and enemies need a boost in challenge and to offer better rewards - some of them have a truckload of hitpoints making them tedious to kill (soulborne demons)... and you get maybe something like 100xp for the effort. Why bother? Better to slaughter Orcs en-masse for slightly less XP per kill, but gained at a much faster rate due to volume.

And even if this were addressed, then it means the Dark Realm is still a 'bottleneck' of sorts. Where else can your level 20-30 PC go for decent progression? Beholders don't really cut it anymore - a slew of 'at will' spell-like abililities that fire every round (on top of auto-dispelling antimagic) can and will ruin your day unless you have a host of immunities and magical defenses.... and yet... you get maybe 200xp for a kill (my arcane archer gets even less at level 26).

12-25 or so can be palatable, and from there you are back to the grind - and now with some of the nerfing, its arguably harder to get to 40 than before. If you are a new player, who is still learning, and have limited playtime, its reasonable to assume you will spend 6 months or more grinding to make it there. That's a lot of investment, and the tedium takes away from the fun and engagement required to persevere. I wouldn't blame someone for giving up.

I know we have had some players who I would consider 'outliers' shotgun up to lvl 40 in a lot less time, and they get bored.... but they also missed a lot of the content on offer in exchange for focusing only on the best leveling processes.

There needs to be a middle ground - and in my opinion, the low levels should be much easier (hence my pushing for cheap potions and buffs at the adventurer's academy), and things should *gradually* ramp up in difficulty, but *not* tedium. Dying should perhaps be easier at mid levels above 15 or so, but the rewards for success should be something like double what they are now, maybe more.

Many of us have had experience with games like World of Warcraft, and they make it easy to get engaged, and the 'grind' really only sets in at the endgame. That's a good model, and they have made a lot of money with it, but my feeling is that the grind itself is a problem.

Repeating the same content because it offers efficient progression for your time investment is not a good thing. It ends up killing the excitement of achieving progression through whatever playstyle a player finds preferable. Some folks enjoy it, but once they get where they seek... they get bored, and have no incentive to branch out because the rest of the content offers 'sub-par' progression.

I think it should matter a *lot* less where you go and what you do, so long as you can feel like you are progressing at a decent rate, no matter what - that, combined with discovery, is what will keep players engaged.

Risk vs. reward is a factor, too - yes. But I feel like high risk encounters should offer exceptional rewards, rather than just 'above average'.

I think the Aenean curve has been slowly skewed over the last few years by some very skilled and resourceful players, who wanted more challenge - so the baseline experience has become tedious and frustrating for newcomers.

Aenea is a world that has so many options and so much complexity its a struggle just to learn half of it (despite, in my opinion, the excellent documentation provided by The Amethyst Dragon and the community - its certainly not perfect, but I feel its significantly better than what is offered by many other NWN servers), let alone have fun enjoying the immersive, yet slow progression.

Reincarnation and Ascension are, to me, a *huge* deal as far as the scope of progression offered at Aenea.... but most folks I have interacted with forgo these options because its too much work just to hit level 40 the first time.... why would they ever intentionally start over and grind all the way back?

One reason to go with these options is to be able to explore the content one might have missed on the first run through - to explore new places and encounters/challenges with the added bonuses/benefits offered by these options to boost confidence in survivability. Thats only going to be attractive if the rate of progression for that content is improved, in my opinion.

My opinion may not be shared by many, but I think the grind has got to go. I would opt to make it easier to level to 30 or so, and slow things down a bit there (not overmuch)... but make it an attractive option for players with limited time to start over with reincarnation and ascension, so they can feel the enjoyment of those added buffs and benefits in addition to the lessons learned the first time through - yes, the buffs make it easier, but even with them, currently the tedium is there - its still a grind... and this means players looking to progress may be incentivised to keep seeking the 'best XP' content in order to keep their rate of progression at an acceptable rate.

What if all the content offered good progression rates, but some high risk content offered exceptional progression? I think that this would encourage players who have conquered the high risk stuff to check out the lower risk content.... and players could also avoid high-risk content and not be 'punished' with painful progression rates.

Heck, the Lady Shea XP store offers even more progression potential - but just to max out my monk's Dexterity, it cose something like 18 million XP and took 3+ months of dedicated grinding over 50,000 kills of the best XP enemies in the world (which have now been 'nerfed'). It has basically stunted any enthusiasm I had about trying to max out any of his other stats, and he has a great many advantages when it comes to grinding XP, not the least of which is moving super-duper fast through an area. I struggle to even consider making an attempt at the same with my other PCs who cannot grind as efficiently.

I feel I need to clarifythat I am not advocating that level 40 PCs should be able to gain 18 million XP and max a stat with Xp store purchases in a couple weeks.... but at current, I can't see it being possible in less than 3 months for a player with 'too much' time to play, let alone a person with RL obligations... for such a player, that content and the fun of experiencing that progression is essentially off the table, and that makes me sad.

I'm not looking for a debate, here. Just sharing my perspective, and if you disagree that's fine - we don't need to discuss reasons for why our opinions might differ. I just hope that those who disagree will consider the scenario of a new player who is struggling to learn all the Aenean-specific systems while bogged down in the tedium and frustration of low-level progression that currently exists.
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Post by Angel of Death on Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:36 pm

daveyeisley wrote:
[...]

And even if this were addressed, then it means the Dark Realm is still a 'bottleneck' of sorts. Where else can your level 20-30 PC go for decent progression? Beholders don't really cut it anymore - a slew of 'at will' spell-like abililities that fire every round (on top of auto-dispelling antimagic) can and will ruin your day unless you have a host of immunities and magical defenses.... and yet... you get maybe 200xp for a kill (my arcane archer gets even less at level 26).

12-25 or so can be palatable, and from there you are back to the grind - and now with some of the nerfing, its arguably harder to get to 40 than before. If you are a new player, who is still learning, and have limited playtime, its reasonable to assume you will spend 6 months or more grinding to make it there. That's a lot of investment, and the tedium takes away from the fun and engagement required to persevere. I wouldn't blame someone for giving up.

[...]

I haven't been on Aenea as long as you dave, but I like to think I have collected a few experiences in the 2-3? years I have played here. For me, I have found a few tricks which makes it sort of easy, well, as easy as it gets for me anyway since I don't optimize a build to it's full potential like some here does. I like to hit up ice trolls at around level 12. They give a huge boost of XP and you can level up fairly quickly. Just need a weapon which deals fire damage and acquire some gear to resist the cold of their environment (and their icy nature). Fire traps are the easiest method, next is wall spells and/or hit and run strategies. (died a number times trying to perfect the tactics; the success rate really depends on what build and class you are though--sometimes also luck XD)

The Underdark and the Searing Sands Ruins are also very good places to gain levels and experience under the belt (plus coins in your pocket from the loot). Serpent Disciples give a huge amount of experience points when you are able to take them down without dying a lot. If the latter, illithids and drow armies may be your better choice until such a time you can take them down.

Liches and Shadowslayers are the next step. In the pre-epics they give decent xp, but it skyrockets when you're in the twenties; the reward is great. You may die a few times until you perfect a strategy to take down the shadowslayers sneak attacks, but it's totally worth it. You just need to be prepared for the battle head, think ahead, don't rush into the fray without loading up on supplies (GoZ and healing potions--or if you prefer, the soul anchor boots + sacrificing to get piety to handle the drain).

daveyeisley wrote:
My opinion may not be shared by many, but I think the grind has got to go. I would opt to make it easier to level to 30 or so, and slow things down a bit there (not overmuch)... but make it an attractive option for players with limited time to start over with reincarnation and ascension, so they can feel the enjoyment of those added buffs and benefits in addition to the lessons learned the first time through - yes, the buffs make it easier, but even with them, currently the tedium is there - its still a grind... and this means players looking to progress may be incentivised to keep seeking the 'best XP' content in order to keep their rate of progression at an acceptable rate.

The grind as you call it, for me, start at around 32-40 actually. It's where the majority of my characters has hit a "wall" so to speak, and it became sort of tedicious to level up. Just my experience anyway. It can vary depending on your build and creativity to progress. I have explored the majority of Aenea (probably not all, it seems I always find a new area I didn't notice before when starting a new character--and I got quite a few of those now). Razz

These are just my thoughts based on my own experience. It may not work for all since it really depends on the indivual case by case. It took me quite a bit of time 8and a lot of dying) to adjust from playing my mage which can zap across Aenea in the blink of an eye and hit most bosses without breaking a sweat or my sturdy warrior which can outlast Vorshy and similar encounters, to play my bardic characters. They are quite squishy until I find a tactic which worked for them. :V

If you a rogue or rogue-like character focusing on traps and setups. Traps are a HUGE help at lower levels. Really, my assassin handled trolls with ease and gained a HUGE boost of XP relative early. It did cost quite a bit, too. As for the preparation; I tried to hit up the ice giants to get ahold of their bows to sell so I could craft the necessary traps. Wink

A low level bard's best song is Lullaby. You can deal with goblin and bandit encounter fairly easy when they all fail their will saves and fall asleep. Very Happy
That won't work in the drow temple however, since elves, as most knows is immune to sleep. Gotta find a way around that, if you're capable of melee, buff yourself up beforehand (or summon creatures to fight for you; both Ballad of the Wild and Dead Man's March does that). Bards are also awesome support characters, if you're in a group, make use of bard song and any of the Aenean custom songs to boost your allies and stay behind to heal/buff them.
Hymn of the Pyre/Winter's Carol and Quaking Chorus are among my favourite damage-dealing songs, when I want to go on the offensive with my bard(s) and/or stall them by putting up walls and stall the enemy while staying behind them singing until out of breath/the enemy's out cold. =D

I don't find myself to hit up beholders in the tunnels much anymore, because it seems to me everyone does that. The areas seem fairly overrun whenever I want to go there,  so I end up tackling some of the boss encounters instead (or try to find some new content/areas to explore/visit). Mad Rolling Eyes 

If I really want to hunt beholders, I end up going to some of the other places they are located; Deathwater Isle, a certain lich near Macedone, the Icereach, etc neither of those places are particular overrun when I am online. The Icereach has a huge variety of critters which give a nice reward vs risk factor in the <30ish if/when you are capable of handling the cold...those areas also benefit vampires since they are vampire-friendly; both from indoor dungeons and the snow snorms and caves.

I do agree that it would be nice with some more dungeons for the 15-30 and 32-40 levels; maybe up the Dark Realm's challenge a bit by taking out some of the many low level critters and replace them with creatures worth a challenge for the later levels on par with beholders in experience? *Takes out scissor and cuts out paragraph* --> Moved to here <--

Btw, Clerics and Holy Warriors attuned to fighting undead may find Alatha to be an awesome place to level in the pre-epics, twenties. Until you can handle things like liches and vampires. There are other nice places for those particular builds to shine, too! sunny 

Hope any of this makes any sense...the post got far longer than I thought it would be when I started writing it. ^^'


Last edited by Angel of Death on Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:04 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by MannyJabrielle on Sat Aug 16, 2014 12:23 am

The "grind" also has a bit to do with class choice.  My two newest characters, one a fighter, the other sorcerer, were pretty much night-and-day.  Even without pimping the summoning staffs, my sorc had such an easier time with everything than the fighter, who's still at around level 10 I think.  Without any innate access to spells/umd, the fighter's effectiveness is a good bit limited.  Gear is far more expensive (full plate and weapon vs plain clothes, a good weapon vs MAYBE buying a couple scrolls if wizard, maybe a wand to expand spell versatility if wizard), far more spent on healing potions, no teleporting outside of wanderer's portals (there ARE teleport helms and 1/day boots, but they are not in any drop lists so you gotta get a mage to make some for you).  Clerics tend to be somewhat middle-ground...  while they can make use of heavy armor, they got plenty of spells to make due with plain unenchanted armor and weapons, buffing as needed, plus healing spells which *really* saves on potion use.

I think what may be the best option is to rebalance hunting areas from the ground up.... tackle one area at a time, consider the balance of baddies in there compared to the level of the characters who would be in there, fighter type, spellcaster, and stealth types.

It would definitely be a long term project, but might be the best way to smooth out the rough spots.  Especially since the lowbie leveles are the ones getting the most complaints.

As for epic areas... yeah, most of the DR is a bit blah.  I've started seeing some more interresting demons about (soulhunters are quite nice actually, gave my sorc around 500XP per in the mid-upper 20's/early 30's).  The DR though is the best place for XP grinding though.  My 40th levels get around 40K per pass through Nemesis' area through Horaxonna's area.  It edges towards 50K for my PCs without any subraces.  A bit more if you add on the XP for all the stuff leading up to those two areas.  There's at least two other areas where there is decent XP to be had along with very very good treasure.  The one area is prime for 20th level to low 30's, both XP and especially loot-wise.

Epic levels could do with polish, but it's the lowbie areas that are in real need of fixing up.
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Post by Angel of Death on Sat Aug 16, 2014 12:43 am

MannyJabrielle wrote:(there ARE teleport helms and 1/day boots, but they are not in any drop lists so you gotta get a mage to make some for you)

Not true. I have seen teleportation boots drop, quite recently actually (helmets and staffs too, IIRC; I know the staff is true at least). Wink
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:07 am

Moving to suggestions forum...

I agree that areas do need some enemy/difficulty adjustments. The feedback helps.

I'm also working on expanding out the XP table to account for more higher CR enemies.




For a purely mechanical explanation of how XP is reward on killing an enemy:

Aenea XP System Overview:

Aenea uses a custom coded XP awarding system. It starts with a starting XP award for a kill based on a comparison of the PC's level (or PC's group's average level) compared to the power leve of the monster killed (calculated by the game engine). Once the starting value is determined, it may be modified before being given to the PC (if playing solo) or before being split amongst the PC's group members that are nearby.

So, quick steps:
1. Get starting XP value
2. If total is over the killing PC's maximum per kill (100 per level), reduce XP to that maximum
3. Make any before-splitting adjustments
4. Split the XP (if in a group)
5. Make any after-splitting adjustments for individual PCs
6. Award the XP


Further details (for those that want them):

Starting XP is based on the D&D 3rd edition XP table with some adjustments (combining PC/group average level row with enemy CR (Challenge Rating) column, then dividing the given number by 10 because computer game combat is so much more abundant than PnP combat).

Example:
Average Party Level 20 (a normal single classed 20th level non-subrace human PC) vs. CR 20 monster:
Starting XP = 4500 (row 20 and column 20 intersection)
NWN XP = 4500 / 10 = 450 XP for the kill (450 is less than the 20th level PC's max of 2000 per kill, so no change in this)

Before-Split Adjustments:
---Party Adjustment: +5% per PC when in a group with other PCs
---Summons/Henchmen: -5% per summon/familiar/henchman
---Party Average Treasure Adjustment: Better-equipped parties earn a little less XP because the fight was easier, poorly-equipped parties earn a little more because the fight would be harder.

Spoiler:
Party Adjustment Example:

If the killer PC is part of a group, increase the total possible XP.  Let's say the PC is in a group with 3 other 20th level PCs (so average party level stays the same):

4500 * 1.2 (a 5% increase per party member) = 5400 / 10 = 540 total XP for the kill


Spoiler:
Party Average Treasure Adjustment Examples:

formula: (AverageTreasureValue - (min_xp_for_Avg_lvl * 10)) * .000002 = percentage decrease

Average party level 20 with an average per PC treasure value (GP + items' GP values) of 5,000,000 gp...

(5000000 - (190000 * 10)) * .000002 = 6.2% decrease

Average party level 20 with an average per PC treasure value (GP + items' GP values) of 1,000,000 gp...

(1000000 - (190000 * 10)) * .000002 = -1.8% decrease (which, being negative, is actually a 1.8% increase)


If PC is in a party, split the XP award with every other PC party member within 50 meters of the kill (distance assumes some sort of participation, even if indirect).

Example:
540 XP / 4 nearby party members = 135 XP per PC

After-Split (Individual) Adjustments:
---Subrace Penalty: calculated in before individual XP is given
---Multi-Class Penalty: built into the game engine for PCs multiclassing without racial preferred class

Minimum XP per PC: 10 or 1 per PC level, whichever is higher (may be lower due to multiclass combinations and/or subrace) - so that even an epic mage fireballing a bunch of wimpy goblins gets something.

Maximum XP per PC: 100 per PC level

In a group, if the difference between an individual PC's level and the group's average level is more than 20 levels, XP given is minimum to discourage "power leveling" (low level PCs tagging along way behind epic characters just to absorb larger amounts of XP).

_________________
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------------------------------------- The Amethyst Dragon -------------------------------------
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Post by MannyJabrielle on Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:12 am

Angel of Death wrote:
MannyJabrielle wrote:(there ARE teleport helms and 1/day boots, but they are not in any drop lists so you gotta get a mage to make some for you)

Not true. I have seen teleportation boots drop, quite recently actually (helmets and staffs too, IIRC; I know the staff is true at least). Wink
The staffs definitely drop.

And are definitely class restricted

The boots must be rare as hell.  I spent a good 40 hours running laps in lich-town, never saw them drop.  Camea cross a good 15 teleport staffs though, yeah Razz
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Post by RustyDios on Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:44 am

What a debate to start.... I'm must agree that the lower levels need adjusting... as many of you know I'm a player with limited playtime... but also I consider myself a veteran of Aenea. I have PC's that are 40th level Ascended, I also have a few low level PC's and a couple that I think fits into this case very well.

My Orc bard/rdd/ftr. The first time playing with him was a grind with abundant playtime (years ago before my three little monsters came along). I found a massive drop in his xp/playtime rate after the sparkyspawn system was put in but still got him to 40th, and was happy with the results.
I then re-incarnated him.
After re-incarnation he started off at 6th level. It has taken me over a year (ish) to get him to level 12. Just level 12. I know all the "good" xp spots, but he just couldn't handle the monsters without dying. It has forced me to find better places to level up as a lowbie for the time I can invest. Which has actually resulted in trips to the Mistborne Swamps and Deathwater Isle. But I have found it IS starting to get easier. Dying just once can set me "months" backwards... ...

I also have another new PC (druid/monk) that I've been trying to level. He seems to be progressing at a better rate, mainly because of his speed allowing him to get to places that have monsters. I've been making notes in his journal as I progress for things that stood out (and when I remembered too!), thought I'd share those here:
Spoiler:

lv7-8.. calithia ruby road.. bladeworms.. 520xp!!
easy risk.. 5-10hp per 2/rd ave damage (AC27)

lv 10... drow temple.... lower floor... serpent disciple... 600xp... av damage 8-20hp per hit...
easy risk... @lv11 660xp!!.. watch out for those damn traps though.

lv15 calithian desert, 900xp, massive bladeworms..bit on the tough side, but worth it

lv22 Calithia sands liches 1320xp relatively easy
   Cinder trolls 68xp.... easy
   Vampire Shadowslayers 1380xp.. HARD
   Bone golem 18xp.... please why are these guys here.. so easy...

I think the biggest problem is finding enemies... even some of the newer caves etc (places that should be packed with kobalds and goblins) are just ..well...empty. However once you have found something you can beat up with relative ease, the xp rewards are just so..meh. I go out of my way to find stuff that can OHKO me just for the xp gain, even knowing that just one death can set back months of playtime (well months being relative, I'm averaging maybe two hours a week in sporadic 20min bursts ~ consider I used to be able to play 4hrs a night, every night)
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Post by Ramana Jala on Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:39 am


daveyeisley wrote:
Reincarnation and Ascension are, to me, a *huge* deal as far as the scope of progression offered at Aenea.... but most folks I have interacted with forgo these options because its too much work just to hit level 40 the first time.... why would they ever intentionally start over and grind all the way back?
Yep.

My first pure wizard, at L40 I'm still getting the hang of all she can do, lots to do with crafting now and considering a relevel to replace feats I never use --can't see me enjoying her as much at low levels again, for a long time to come.  At the moment, I'm just trying to make up her XP debt from all the crafting and scrollmaking so that I can consider visiting Lady Shea's to buy attributes.  Just doing that for a wizard always losing XP will likely take some considerable slogging.

Then RP with my ranger/rogue can't substantiate her being a lowbie again at this time.  Also considering a new character (or two) in the same family line, which will be only my third in Aenea.  With so little play time, I might never have the time to reincarnate my first two characters and slog them back up to L40.

I hate low levels and I hate grinding XP, but when I first came to Aenea it was so much easier than Thain, where it took me four years to get one character to L20 and still haven't got one past L17.   Leveling seems more difficult nowadays, putting me off even considering reincarnating or making a new character, when I can simply enjoy the satisfaction of my L40 play.
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Is actually another persona of Ramana.

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and the best real eye-witness to the
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Post by daveyeisley on Sat Aug 16, 2014 12:29 pm

I didn't realize that there was a 90% XP reduction after the PnP level vs. CR calculation.

I get that it's easier to find fights in a computer game, but I'm struggling to see how reducing XP by 90% somehow makes the game more fun - or anything less than 'more grindy'

Aenea is supposed to feel closer to PnP anyways.

Perhaps it would be worth considering a change to that calculation... Perhaps divide by 5 instead of 10?
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Post by margolloxx on Sat Aug 16, 2014 12:40 pm

Here is what i did with my dwarven defender after hitting 30th.

Spoiler:
Get your Great Cleve. Go into the underdark, find your way to Simyah (or something) which is Drowcity. Run around in town onehitting dozens of drow, get your minimal xp for each one which will stack up to the thousands very fast and you will hit a level per hour (in the 30th). This is the fastest way i know of, to level up. Of course that is a huge grind still. I just run into a group of them and one great cleve kills them all (dozens of them).


To be honest, i don't really understand,
Spoiler:
why the drow are so easy to kill after all. The Nonfightertypes maybe but the warriors should really not be 20HP onehitkills. Beholders and Illithids are quite tough on early levels but the drow are so weak, they even get killed by their slaves in the temple at the entrance to underdark. The duergars have tons of hp each, even the goblins down there are tougher.
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Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Sat Aug 16, 2014 12:52 pm

10% of the PnP XP/CR value is actually what you already get with normal NWN.

_________________
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------------------------------------- The Amethyst Dragon -------------------------------------
Creator of Aenea | Custom Content Maker | Dungeon Master | Builder | Scripter | Writer | Player | Sleepless
The Amethyst Dragon
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. : Creator of Aenea / Dungeon Master
Male Number of posts : 7839
Age : 45
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NWN Username : amethystdragon
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Post by daveyeisley on Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:44 pm

The Amethyst Dragon wrote:10% of the PnP XP/CR value is actually what you already get with normal NWN.

If this is a response to me, perhaps I need to clarify. My post was made with the above understanding. Dividing by 10 leaves only 10% of the XP for the PC. Dividing by 5 would leave 20% of it.
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