Partially Used: Pickpocket and Disarm

Pickpocket:

I suggest that this not be usable on other players. Otherwise there is too much potential for "griefing" in my opnion. I am glad we havent had an issue yet, but I personally would hate to ever have to deal with one.

Disarm:

Same as above regarding PCs, with the exception of being flagged hostile and pvp willing in the arena. Also, custom items should not be put on the ground... perhaps unequipped... but if they go on the ground, they can be picked up by a character who did not earn and does not own the item. Potential for abuse.

I agree with Daveyeisley 70%. I've given a lot of thought into the PP skill over the last 8 months, and have some ideas of my own.

I'll write more later, but I believe that PCs should not be immune to having their pockets picked, but with some important caveats.

I think I'm in the same "70%" category as Svair; I've played on servers with full pickpocket before (Miow started as a kender, if anyone hasn't picked that up from her fashion sense ), and I think it only mostly worked because it was also full PvP and if you got annoyed you could at least *try* to Hellball the crap out of the person. As I am, however, rather in love with Aenea's unique PvP setting, I'd vote in favor of changing PP.

(Edit: Since it's a lack of potential consequences that could make it a problem, perhaps PPing a PC could change your PvP setting? Or perhaps only PvP willing PC's are valid PP targets? The latter at least leaves the choice up to the individual, but I think I'm still in favor of simply dissallowing PC targets.)

As far as disarm, it seems a perfectly valid combat move to me and I think it should stay as such. I didn't realize custom items actually went to the ground (I'd assumed "undroppable" meant "undroppable"), so the other 20% of my vote is in favor of making custom items only drop to your inventory.

I agree with daveyeisley ... we've been superfantastically lucky so far in not having full-blown griefing problems - I think part of that is the "head 'em off at the pass" mindset that we all have here - keep open minds and stop problems before they become problems. I have no issue with pickpocketing being non-effective on PCs, I think I would prefer that. Custom items aside, I don't like the thought of another player being able to have access to what it may have taken me days of gametime to acquire. If that were to happen, I could see me souring real, real quick! So, yeah, I'd say, keep it to the NPCs. Better to err on the side of caution.

I'm in the 70% crowd myself. I'm not worried really about PP greiffing as we just dont have that type playing on Aenea. It's not really getting used, much less abused. And while it would be good to block any griefage before it happens, it also wouldn't be quite right to nerf a skill one has invested points into in the process.

The most sensible change would be to make it so only gold is pickpocketable.

A simple addition to the module's onenter could parse through players inventories and make their items all carry the no-pickpocket flag.. and then add that same routine to the onaqquire for new items found during gameplay.

As for PPing in general, I'm not overly familiar wth how much the skill itself can be changed mechanics-wise.... If it's possible a better array of DCs would work.

The current 20/30 DCs for neutrals/hostiles is good for low levels, but then turns into just a formality barring the 1 rolls. Having the DC scale to the target's level would be good, making it nigh impossible for a low level thief to steal from a high level character, and in the reverse, set in a block that a high level character just won't be able to PP a character lower level than himself.

As for disarming, I've browsed through plenty of servers where disarm put the weapon into it's owners inventory instead of dropping it to the ground. Like PPing, this isn't something that's getting abused, or even used really... so the fix would be good, but I'm not worried about it.

The fix would best be used on only PCs though. The hawk animal companion, and I believe the crow familiar uses disarm on enemies... if the weapon gets dropped to the ground, the NPC isn't likely to just requip the weapon as it doesn't have it anymore.

If the NPC can just requip the weapon after being disarmed, it nerfs the feat for players who use it and actually manage to disarm the baddies, and nerfs a great aspects of those particular companions/familiars who use the feat as well.

i gotta disagree with you, MannyJabrielle - I don't like the idea of anyone being able to filch my gold - I know that that is a part of a world that has assassins/rogues/thieves/bards as a part of its class machinery, but I don't like it all the same. As I said before, my time is limited, and oftentimes as a result, my gold is limited as well. Having people able to deprive me of it (other than merchants) doesn't sit well with me. And of course, just because a problem isn't a problem now, doesn't mean that it won't be a problem later. I say put the parameters in now so there aren't problems down the line. This could also bring the NPCs more into the PCs interactions, especially the non-merchant ones.

As far as disarm goes I say drop the customs into inventory, and the rest onto the ground. No problem there! Liek y'all said, why nerf what doesn't need nerfing?

My main problem with PP is that the only pvp combat is supposed to take place in the arena. Thats the only place anybody should have to worry about coming under attack by another PC... whether it be by spell, physical attack, or pickpocket.... and in the arena, folks should be there to fight (or watch/cheer)... not steal from one another.

I dont want to have to constantly pay attention to who is around my PC. I dont it is fair for roguish PCs to be able to take things from me if I am not paying attention to my PC because I am dealing with a phone call or such. I do not want to have to log out for fear that while my PC is standing around, some other PC is going to try and take something fom my PC. Items or gold.. doesnt really matter. The way the server is, pvp-wise, I am not supposed to kill other PCs outside the arena. I like that fact, its a good set up. I should not have to worry about being pickpocketed.

The roguish types should have full use of the skill on NPCs, thats all well and good. But if they can do it to PCs, then they can "force" a PvP situation. Thats not how Aenea is supposed to work. It is supposed to be 100% consent based. Hence, the no pickpocket on other players. The points a roguish PC spends can be used to gain items and gold from NPCs, and that should suffice.


As for disarm.... I have no problem with its use on NPCs, and dropping their weapons on the ground. Against PCs, it should only be done during arena PvP... and the idea of being able to use the feat to steal somebody's weapon goes against my concept of the feats purpose.
I would say a better solution is to make the weapon go to inventory and put a delay on the PCs ability to re-equip it.

PickPocketing could use some form of management.
On about every server that is full PvP and allows pickpocketing there is always some form of griefing that has been done. As such this would 100% need to be altered so that if and when anyone does PP, limits can be put on what can be pickpocketed, where it can be done, and how often it can be done.
Disarm is currently just fine the way it is. On some worlds disarm poses a problem with weapons that are special and the like, but thing is, those worlds, like some others, don't have enforced theft regulations.

Currently weapons are no drop in Aenea, but can be disarmed, this is perfectly okay in my opinion, even with custom weapons. However, there should be the following rules to be enforced should a custom weapon be disarmed. 1- only the creator can pickup and use that type of custom item. 2- if the disarmer takes the weapon, whether on purpose or by accident, he must either destroy it (like via sacrifice) or have deleted by DM and the PC that was disarmed regiven their custom item.
This is an easy small fix which merely relies on that DMs remember to regive lost custom items to a player. It also means that if a player doesn't destroy the item they picked up themselves, a DM will do it for them. Its simple, and should be effective I think.

Having 2 rules for disarm is good, no? That will fix disarm without needs of any scripts and the like which could bog down performance, and if a NPC ever uses disarm, the rules could apply there.

Having either heavily enforced pickpocketing rules or highly accurate scripts to maintain pickpocketing is a must though.

Then I would suggest a PvP Pickpcoket flag.

Don't get me wrong, if someone doesn't like that style of play, I got no problem with not forcing them into it. I'm here to have fun, they're here to have fun, and there's plenty of room in the server for all styles of play without having to make others endure what they don't want to.

On the same token, I have to be honest that restricting how players can choose to interact with each other smacks of that same forcing ideals onto others.

I can completely understand the "nip it in the bud before it happens" sentiment, but to be frank, it's not a huge issue, not even really brought up until this very thread. I would really not want to see this server start getting bogged down with all sorts of rules and regulations telling us how not to be jerks. I would rather believe that we're all a generally mature lot capable of policing ourselves and maintaining the cooperative friendly atmosphere that has been the norm since I've been on the server, and most likely since before that as well.

MannyJabrielle wrote:Then I would suggest a PvP Pickpcoket flag.

Don't get me wrong, if someone doesn't like that style of play, I got no problem with not forcing them into it. I'm here to have fun, they're here to have fun, and there's plenty of room in the server for all styles of play without having to make others endure what they don't want to.

On the same token, I have to be honest that restricting how players can choose to interact with each other smacks of that same forcing ideals onto others.

I can completely understand the "nip it in the bud before it happens" sentiment, but to be frank, it's not a huge issue, not even really brought up until this very thread. I would really not want to see this server start getting bogged down with all sorts of rules and regulations telling us how not to be jerks. I would rather believe that we're all a generally mature lot capable of policing ourselves and maintaining the cooperative friendly atmosphere that has been the norm since I've been on the server, and most likely since before that as well.

I understand your points, but what this boils down to is the *one* time that a griefer gets away with doing this and ruins someone else's play experience is worth preventing enough to put a small restriction on player interaction. In the scope of things its a very minor restriction, as by your own account, it rarely comes up.... but if it ever does come up, it should not be a viable avenue for griefers. That needs to be prevented.

Slippery Slope? Sure is. And we can trust to not let it go too much beyond this.

Can it be given a consent toggle? I am sure if wanted to spend the time to accomodate the very small percentage of players who feel they absolutely *must* be allowed to steal from other players (provided those players are willing, which will be even more rare), he could indeed find a way to do it.... but is it worth the time invested? I think not.

My main problem with PP is that the only pvp combat is supposed to take
place in the arena. Thats the only place anybody should have to worry
about coming under attack by another PC... whether it be by spell,
physical attack, or pickpocket.... and in the arena, folks should be
there to fight (or watch/cheer)... not steal from one another.

This was one of the original kender Miow's favorite tactics: can't be a fight if you handle all of their weapons away, now can there? XD

Am I advocating for that here, though? Well, no. That was, as RCC mentioned, not just a full PvP server but a PvP-heavy server. There were a lot of rules around PvP and even pickpocketing, but a LOT of griefing and harassment too. Sometimes I miss it, just a little, like when Aurora's being an evil murdering bitch (er, you know, more blatantly than usual, if that's possible, and actually in front of Miow) and Miow knows that she's currently twice her level and Sorgath would just bring her back, but Miow would just love to send them both to the trouble, stat... you get the idea XD
But 99.9% of the time I like the way Aenea works. It has very very few rules... technically only really one, with the rest being strong suggestions, really.

Um... right... it's early... I stayed up a little late for me... wth was I going on about? Oh, right. Perhaps pickpocketing can be tied to the PvP consent toggle? Most people don't seem to go around with that on unless they're headed for the pit. Disabling it vs PCs completely? Eh. Whatever. I wouldn't cry. I wouldn't be excited, but I wouldn't cry. If I'm that hell bent on RPing thievery with someone else who likes to RP also, I can always just... RP it. Me dexy, you spot good, I get theoretical thing, you notice, you yell, blabla.

Idea partially used.

After next update, on login all non-equipped inventory items will automatically get flagged as "no pick pocket".

In addition, if you are in combat and drop a weapon (the best the game can determine as "you were just disarmed"), you will automatically stop what you are doing and pick it up from the ground (back into your inventory).