Partially Used: XP Store

So, here I am. Warlord of Beuttleria, level 40 ascended. I can buy seven houses. Used to be sixteen, but then I ascended. Anyways.

So I'm getting all this XP by leading all these armies on all these sorties against all these enemies. It's complicated, whatever.

The point is, it's all going to waste.

I propose an XP store. Not a store where you buy XP, but a store where you buy things with XP. Maybe weapons with elemental damages slightly above cap. Maybe armor with some extra-special +6 or +7 enhancement, or even some extra DR. Maybe even custom item vouchers. Something to do with all our useless XP. ((And level vouchers...))

I like the idea. I second it!!

I third it!


EKoD Approval

That would be pretty sweet to see put in, would give the pc's who have ascended a bit to look forward to.

This is a needed in order to drive people to want to use their level 40 ascended character with 2.1 million xp....(Derik after last night). Thing is the big present in DM events is xp. So when there is a epic level DM event that needs level 40's or good level 30's to kill stuff xp can be useless.

Perhaps XP could be used to help create and craft Blood of Magic gems; a commodity always in need.

even better... use of XP to take armor/shields/weapon above up to +10 enhancement like the impaler and blazing staff, which only require character levels, no Xp expenditure.

I would grind for a few million XP to do this.

Or.... you could store XP in the bank at a 2-1 exchange rate, to be used on other characters. Like retiring, only without losing the character.

my old server we had something sweet for high levels , you banked one million exp and you could then spend it to get 1 char point which could be used to buy a point of a stat or a skill , so one extra con point costed you 1 million exp. It worked and was easy thanks to leto.

Rather than a shop, I would prefer to see some Epic crafting system open for any class to make BoM and other rare commodities. At least then, the items are made to the desires of the player, and not pre-forged items held in the hands of the gods.

Elhanan wrote:Rather than a shop, I would prefer to see some Epic crafting system open for any class to make BoM and other rare commodities. At least then, the items are made to the desires of the player, and not pre-forged items held in the hands of the gods.

So far, I think Elhanan's right on the money. Crafting is always king in my book!

How about purchasing the tomes of stats with XP. Or purchasing 1k vouchers with 250k XP. Seeing That may sound a bit of a waste at that point, but since it stacks with other vouchers, it can add up quite nicely for those who put the effort into it. That would keep people from going over the limitations currently set in place, but allows for more effects on an item instead.

Buying tomes would be nice, since that way it would be easier to keep track of which ones you used.

Or, perhaps instead of a store, some variation of HG's legendary levels system.

That would be ubersweet! mmmmmm...... Legendary Levels.........

Not going with legendary level system. I don't have 3 full months of free time to integrate it into all of the Aenea scripts and systems.

It would have been a possibility 4 years ago, but not any longer. It's a nice system, but you basically have to build a module around it, rather than just adding it to a module, for things to work right.

Can DM's take XP away as well as give it ?.... We could have a DM run "store" for spawning in "Tombs of X" for "Y xp loss".... ...

yes, they can. So, so long as is good with it, that would work as a temporary use for excess XP

They got something similar to th is in most mmo's nowadays. Its a little different but you could "buy" unique looking stuff to add to you character(costume options..fluff pets and such) with money.

Ya could do something like that here with excessive xp....buy appearance changes to standard shields that arent allowed with standard crafting and stuff. Have a voucher you can buy off the same npc in the SDI(space defense initiative?lol) that offers the item remake vouchers...call it an "appearance shift voucher" or something but you could buy it with gold..and in its text it would also state how much xp it would take as well.

Then it just requires an appearance shift and then use the same system used for the voucher items to pop it in the inventory.

Just a thought i had...

XP for BoM would be amazing, especially for people who have a large collection to fully enhance (like Kasigi: he still has to enhance a katana, wakizashi, and his yumi.)

I like Kefrem's idea best. Things that aren't making PCs any more powerful per say, but more fun to play. Appearance changes, utility abilities or spells and such. Nothing battle-related. That wouldn't discourage new players who would feel even weaker since they will never be as strong as old characters and at the same time, reward players for playing a character after reaching the level cap.

To actually contribute to a discussion, a few ideas:
-change a diety(!) I really think PCs should be able to change their worshipping object. That's probably a hassle to implement without allowing exploits, though.
-ask the gods a question and get an answer; this could include questions like "where do I find this and that" for rare items, hard to find NPCs or places. Some answers could trigger a quest with unique rewards. A lot of options here.
-reincarnation/ascension upgrades; a few million XP for keeping a second item, increase abilities' uses/day etc
-tomes of knowledge - up to +4

Alternatively, if we go the "power" route, there could be very special feats only obtainable with tremendous amounts of XP. One I would like to actually see (but I know I won't) is "gimmee more spells, dammit! " for sorcerers.

So, I was talking to someone in-game via tells when an idea suddenly hit me for something neat that could go in an XP store.

Spell Augmenters. Items that, when used/possessed, augment your spells to be different.

For example - An augmenter that changes the Stoneskin/Greatere Stoneskin/Premonition spells from their usual X/+5 to X/+6.

An augmenter for Healing Spells that allows for overhealing to be turned into temporary hit points (to a maximum of 50 points, and only when cast by spell)

Once I come up with a larger list I'll post them in bulk.

Ok, a more comprehensive list.

Spoiler:

These items are designed so that the most powerful effects have some reasonably place drawbacks, and so that they don't give a massive advantage over characters without access to them. As a suggestion for these, limit a PC to the use of 1 or 2 augmenters at a time.

I'll be coming up with other similar item ideas for non-casters.

I've started adding a couple options for using up some of that excess XP. After the next reset, you might want to talk a certain half-dragon shopkeeper in Mountainholm Castle...if you're level 40, have no XP Debt, and have at least 10,000 extra XP she'll let you know about some special magic she can do.

So far:
blood of magic (cost: 10k XP)
+1 to chosen ability score (cost: 500k xp, not limited like with tomes (and tomes can still be used))

Coming soon:
feats (for 500,000 to 2,000,000 XP)

Aenea, where we make LCE enthusiasts cry

Oh....

My....

Gawd.....


Am I dreaming?

*pinch* Owww!

Yes folks, that sound you hear are the gears going into overdrive in Dave's brain.

While I like the idea of buying ability scores, I forsee a tiny little problem - without a limit it can greatly skew the difference between ascended characters and newer ones that are both at level 40. Yes, I entirely agree that there should be a way to give people not only something to strive for, but something to do once they get there. But, I am entirely against having no limit to the number you can get.

Yes, 500k is a hefty price - but XP is by no means a limited resource. Eventually, it will get skewed. I tend to think that getting this one before it becomes a problem is going to be important. It wouldn't be right to take it away once it's there.

As for feats, it's comes down to what feats are available this way. So for the moment, I'm leaving that one alone. I will, however, suggest adding the crafting feats to the "store" and Skill Focus (Add any random skill here). +3 is hardly game breaking, even to the most combat oriented skills like concentration and discipline.

I'd say even epic skill focuses.

Certain feats should definitely be unavailble. HiPs, for example. If one can buy that... it would render SD useless to any one under 40th and not reincarnated or ascended.

The no limit thing on the stats is a good point as well now that I think about it.

From a DM standpoint, I already find it extremely difficult to challenge players with difficult encounters... this could potentially make challenging them requiring monsters with such uber stats that it'd be a bit beyond silly.

MannyJabrielle wrote:Yes folks, that sound you hear are the gears going into overdrive in Dave's brain.

They're already there... Im studying....

But yes.... this is distracting news....

evilkittenofdoom wrote:While I like the idea of buying ability scores, I forsee a tiny little problem - without a limit it can greatly skew the difference between ascended characters and newer ones that are both at level 40. Yes, I entirely agree that there should be a way to give people not only something to strive for, but something to do once they get there. But, I am entirely against having no limit to the number you can get.

Yes, 500k is a hefty price - but XP is by no means a limited resource. Eventually, it will get skewed. I tend to think that getting this one before it becomes a problem is going to be important. It wouldn't be right to take it away once it's there.

As for feats, it's comes down to what feats are available this way. So for the moment, I'm leaving that one alone. I will, however, suggest adding the crafting feats to the "store" and Skill Focus (Add any random skill here). +3 is hardly game breaking, even to the most combat oriented skills like concentration and discipline.

I would share your concerns in an environment where PvP was an unavoidable eventuality. For instance in an MMO such as WoW, where factions are built into the game to drive a PvP mechanic.

In a PvM environment, this just translates to folks with WAAAY too much time to actually gain something for it.
Its a reward for playing a character all the way thru ascension, and your 256 hour voucher and exploring the whole game world.... and *still* continuing to play. I have seen a good number of folks who enjoyed Aenea while it was a new experience... but before they even completed the list of things above, got bored and stopped logging in. This is a nice incentive.... and I think it is sufficiently costly that you wont see any PC's with stats over 100 anytime soon. And for goodness sake.... at 500k per *point*.... if somebody gets there... more power to them

In a PvM enviroment it can also translate to them being so powerful, no creature really offers any challenge. Honestly if a player wants to bore themselves silly like that, then sure, more power to them. They're just gonna have to accept that they've gotten to a point where nothing is gonna challenge them at all, and the technical aspects of the game are purely moot.

I honestly think there should be a cap. +10 to any one stat is a very generous amount (5 million per +10 to each stat, 30 million to max out, and then there's the feats which will be 500k to 2 million each?

That's still a LOT of play time, even when getting beholder XP, and at a +10 cap, it can still keep a relative range for creating creatures to challenge everyone without things being so far skewed towards AB/AC monsters.

I could agree to +10. I definitely agree that it isn't as much of an issue since it's not a PvP inevitable world. But, it is an issue as far as I'm concerned. I figure, there should at least be *something* that challenges even the most powerufl of PCs. Even if that thing is only DM spawned, there needs to be something. But without a cap to stats, there eventually becomes nothing that even a DM can throw at someone like that without slaughtering anyone else around them.

If the limit is +10, I would also suggest instead of doing straight Leto edits to the stats, offer the +10 as the Great <Stat> feats. That would let players easily keep track of how many boosts they've bought, the Great Constitution and Great strength VIII through X feats would see the light of Aenea-day, and it'd fit smoothly into the future feat offerings.

And on the general concern of "offering reward" for 40th level ascended with XP pouring out the ears... I think it may be worth considering something less uber for reward.

The "enhancements" to abilities is an idea... Casters could buy "enhancements" to their metamagics (empowered spells could do 2X their normal damage when the character has the empowered feat + an "enhanced empowered spell" feat for example. Meleer types could go for something to enhance their combat durability (improved versions of the epic damage reduction feats), damage (say, for X amount of XP, have some of the rarer damage types added to your favorite weapon like magical, postive, divine, or negative... available through vouchers, but also through the XP merchant)... Granted it would be more work to implement, but, I think it would be far more managable game balance wise than unlimited stat enhancements, which are EXTREMELY powerful, and if left unlimited, can become extremely unbalancing.

Heck, one can overencumber themselves infinitely by upping their STR too high. It's actually kinda funny.

Billy: Why are ya moving so slow, Bob?

Bob: I'm so strong I can't carry anything.

Billy: Oh...... sucks to be you!

*bob takes his sword and breaks it in half over Billy's head, shattering the head in the process*

Bob: Is it so funny now?

__

Anyway, I'm against using the Great X feats, mainly because I actually use them. As a caster, I use them to increase my DC because I try not to focus on more than three spell schools. Usually I can come up with about 4-6 great stat feat in that build. As a fighter, I use great STR/CON depending on whether it's a tank or damager. As a cleric, my cleric needed those feats to even MAKE the requirements for Planar Turning. (Which I come to find out, does NOTHING ) Overall, I'd say using those feats for this purpose is a bad idea.

Actually... you're right, but I'm not necessarily agreeing for the reasons you stated.. but rather the process you mentioned (cuz when you think about it... level up, but don't take the great stat feats... buy them at 40th, reincarnate... and then you still have them, but also have extra feat sltos for spell focuses, or weapon focuses or whatnot...)

Rather... now that I think about it, I honestly don't know what the end effect would be of taking say, great intelligence I through IV, and then buying great intelligence V would cause... if the PC then reincarnates/relevels... would they lose the great int I-IV feats, but keep the great int V feat, and then when back in epic levels only be able to take great int VI+? That may ultimately screw a character outa those I-IV feats... so the straight leto edits to the stats would be better.

A limit of +10 per stat is a good idea, and one of the other DMs brought up the idea of recording the stat increases in the database so that an "info" type VC command could be used to help keep track of them so that you know which ones you've gotten (and the same with the ability-boosting books, which are already tracked in the code).

If nobody has jumped in and used this function yet, I can make the change tonight in the toolset after I go out and fix a flat tire.

Oh, and the feats list will not include Hide in Plain Sight, and it doesn't include any other really class-specific feats (besides some metamagic) or epic feats.

As far as the "enhanced metamagic" suggestions...that would entail me editing every spell script in the game, so anything like it is lower on my list of possibilities.

The extra points thing makes me almost as happy as it makes Dave. This makes my Valkyrie build so much more viable.

If yer gonna cap it, I would at least say go with something like +20... but I still feel the cap is not needed.

The situation where somebody has so many stat boosts that nothing challenges them is so far off, I dont think it should be a deciding factor at the inception of the system. And those uber stat people wont really create a different situation than there already is, with lower level PCs not being able to survive travelling with higher level PCs, and non-ascended PCs not being able to survive challenges for Ascended PCs.

Not having a cap will allow the chance for continued development as the playerbase's PCs grow beyond the confines of the current challenges.

+20 sounds reasonable too. It's only a +10 to any one ability modifier and would take spending 10 million extra XP after reaching 40th level (you're limited to spending excess XP you already have...you can't spend XP in a way that will reduce your level under 40th).

Oh, and in case anyone sees this as something so far off in the future for their characters...it works for any level 40 character with extra XP to spend, not just Ascended ones.

Which is good, since I don't really want to Ascend Kasigi anytime soon. I'm perfectly content to let him stay Reincarnated.

Some feat suggestions that'd be neat to see...

Spoiler:

Also, how about adding the ability to add 5 points to your maximum Power Points, up to a maximum of 25 or 50?

For feats, will the XP store still check to make sure the PC has the pre-requisites to qualify? For expertise/imp expertise, etc?

No check for prerequisites...I plan on it just being a straight up granting of the feat.

Expertise will be on the list, but not Improved Expertise.

From another thread:

1. An option to free your PC from hunger/thirst permanently.

2. An option to free your PC from the need to breathe air permanently.

evilkittenofdoom wrote:. . . Spell Augmenters. Items that, when used/possessed, augment your spells to be different. . . .

Great idea, evilkittenofdoom! This is the sort of thing that would prompt me to stay the course with an existing character beyond ascension.

Caldor