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Blinding Speed Empty Blinding Speed

Post by MannyJabrielle Fri May 14, 2010 1:41 pm

Blinding speed is a bit more attractive now that it's 3/day uses rather than 1/day, but for it's high relatively high requirement (23+ dex, feat investment), it's still rather undesirable (why burn a precious feat, and an epic one at that, when one can buy unlimited number of haste potions?).

Even if Fleet of Foot (which is basically blinding speed without the +4 AC or extra attack per round) were added as an additional prerequisite, giving blinding speed more uses would make it truely a viable feat rather than a novelty.
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Blinding Speed Empty Re: Blinding Speed

Post by MannyJabrielle Fri May 14, 2010 1:45 pm

Even a <character level>uses/day would make this feat more viable and less a novelty as well.
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Blinding Speed Empty Re: Blinding Speed

Post by evilkittenofdoom Fri May 14, 2010 4:34 pm

I made a suggestion to make the feat give a person one extra attack per rounds, as per haste. Increasing base movement speed naturally would be neat as well if combined with haste.
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Post by RustyDios Fri May 14, 2010 5:15 pm

evilkittenofdoom wrote:I made a suggestion to make the feat give a person one extra attack per rounds, as per haste. Increasing base movement speed naturally would be neat as well if combined with haste.

Doesn't Blinding Speed already do this ?.... ... I thought it was akin to a 3/day self-cast haste ?
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Post by evilkittenofdoom Fri May 14, 2010 5:44 pm

It does, I meant to replace the haste effect and affect at all times.
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Post by RustyDios Fri May 14, 2010 5:55 pm

Aha.... I think I'm with ye.. so you'd want Blinding Speed to do a kinda ""Monk Speed + Monk UBAB"" effect (for non-monks!), or similiar...

...or a perma-haste type deal, instead of a usage/haste thing ?

That would be cool.... IF FoF became a pre-req as well ...
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Post by evilkittenofdoom Fri May 14, 2010 6:11 pm

Not a permahaste per se, but at least give them the attack per round. Remove the movement speed and AC bonus, and yes, that's where I was headed with that.
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Blinding Speed Empty Re: Blinding Speed

Post by MannyJabrielle Fri May 14, 2010 8:38 pm

I wouldn't be too hot on that. Remove the speed and it isn't really "blinding speed" anymore, is it?

An "extra attack/round" feat would be nice as something separate, but I'd honestly be fine with blinding speed working as it does now (haste effect), just not with the very limited uses/day.
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Post by evilkittenofdoom Fri May 14, 2010 9:02 pm

Ok then, how about changing it to 5 times a day at rounds per character level as the duration?
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Post by MannyJabrielle Fri May 14, 2010 9:34 pm

That could work too. Anything really to make it more viable and useful
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Blinding Speed Empty Re: Blinding Speed

Post by daveyeisley Sat May 15, 2010 5:22 am

With the rarity of permahaste, I wouldnt want to see a permanent passive extra attack from the feat, the movement speed and maybe the AC bonus wouldnt be so bad.

I think uses/day is the best way to do it, but if 3 isnt enough, I wouldnt want to see it go over 10 uses/day. Maybe character level divided by 4 would be better.
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Blinding Speed Empty Re: Blinding Speed

Post by MannyJabrielle Sat May 15, 2010 5:43 am

No, it shouldn't be a perma-haste, but nothing wrong with character level per uses.

It's still less rounds of haste level per level compared to a wizard with a comparable investment (13 stat as compared to 25, extend spell which is good for any applicable spell vs blinding speed which is a single effect).

Level per level comparison, sorcerers have more than double the total rounds available, still assuming bare min 13 charisma.

Bonus spell slots via a comparable casting stat (25+) will still put casters even further ahead in available rounds of haste compared to the blinding speed user of comparable level.
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Post by daveyeisley Sun May 16, 2010 12:16 pm

I dont think the feat should offer comparable rounds/day compared to an actual spellcaster. Spells have limitations that the feat is not subject to... spellcasters should expect better results in the rwalm of magic than other classes, I think.

because the feat can be gotten by a PC with no spellcasting or magic using classes at all, it still allows the emulation of a powerful magical ability albeit with less efficient results.
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Post by MannyJabrielle Sun May 16, 2010 1:32 pm

spellcasters should expect better results in the rwalm of magic than other classes, I think.

Blinding speed is not magic however. By PnP, it's extraordinary rather than supernatural.

It's rather a mistake too to consider that any ability that creates any effect is in the realm of magic and therefore should automatically be inferior to the effects spell casters can produce.
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Post by daveyeisley Sun May 16, 2010 1:35 pm

Any ability that creates any effect?

How about an ability that mimicks a magical effect?

I think we can agree to disagree. I dont think were are going to come to a middle ground.
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Post by MannyJabrielle Sun May 16, 2010 1:44 pm

By 3.5 SRD, blinding speed reads as being extraordinary, not supernatural, spell like, or psi-like. I suppose we can agree to disagree, but I'm fully correct in my stance that because an ability creates an effect, or even as you put it, 'mimicks' an effect, it's not inherently magical. That's the point of the division between supernatural, spell like, and extraordinary abilities. Sorry.
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Post by daveyeisley Sun May 16, 2010 1:48 pm

Well, the point you're arguing isnt actually salient to the one I was making, but we seem to run into this issue when we disagree. So, game on.
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Post by MannyJabrielle Sun May 16, 2010 1:53 pm

Whatever Smile
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Post by daveyeisley Sun May 16, 2010 2:04 pm

Just to clarify, I do not disagree that Blinding Speeds current implementation is unattractive.

I do have two questions for you, though, if you would indulge me.

1. Do you feel that the feat should allow PCs with no magic or spellcasting abilities (for example a straight fighter), to manifest the haste effect for a comparable amount of time per day as a PC who has invested many levels (we could go into specific numbers to clarify the example, but lets stay general for now) into a spellcasting class (but no extended spell feat)?

2. Do you feel that improving blinding speed would be better served with more usages/day or with a longer duration?
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Post by MannyJabrielle Sun May 16, 2010 2:15 pm

1) Yes.
2) uses.
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Post by daveyeisley Sun May 16, 2010 2:20 pm

So we definitely totally disagree on #1.

So 3 uses is too few.

You feel that 40 uses/day is not too many?
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Post by MannyJabrielle Sun May 16, 2010 2:28 pm

No, I don't feel nor think 40 uses is too much.

BTW, in echo of my response in the other thread, when you're done debating about me and what I feel, and want to debate the suggestion on hand, I'll be more than willing to respond further.

Thanks!
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Post by daveyeisley Sun May 16, 2010 2:33 pm

Thank for your responses thus far. It has helped to identify where specifically we disagree. I do think 40 is too many.

There is absolutely nothing personal going on on my end, it isnt about you. Or about me.

Its about the differences in our opinions on this subject, and having them clearly identified.
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