Not Used: "negative" properties

Hey, there!

I was just browsing through the Player Reward Items? thread, and came across this line:

[img]https://2img.net/u/2813/42/61/05/smiles/787378.jpg[/img] wrote:2f. Note that "negative" properties do not decrease the value of an item, so there's really no reason to add them to your item (unless you just want to have such a drawback for roleplaying purposes).

Any chance that could be changed, even just a little? It would be cool to see PCs creating items that weren't just uber-powered swords of foe-exploding - I know that I'd be more willing to put a negative on a weapon, if there was some sort of counterbalance ...

I dunno, I was just thinking ... anyone have any thoughts? ? dave? Anyone?

I think there should be a benefit for putting these on items as well. I play champions pnp rpg...and in there you could take limitations which would give you a cost break on the power you were building.

It would also make the weapons/items even more unique.

Me too... designing custom items would become a game in itself of careful well thought out "balance" ... Imagine a DC32 On hit: Vorpal sword, that also tries to consume it's owner by giving a -10 to Con (thus reducing the users HP to pittance)~ Kill or be killed?....

A SR32 shield with +50% ASF, the True Spellblocker... ...
A weapon with DC26 On Hit Poison (1d2 xxxAbility), that also gives the user an xxxAbility Penalty, a proper two-edged sword... ..

The issue comes in with the fact that the toolset does not/cannot automatically adjust the item's value based on negative properties chosen.

If tries to assign value reductions himself, thats a lot of work just to make a list, and then more work for the value calculations for every custom item that gets submitted with negative properties.

Can it be done? Yeah, there are a number of ways to make it possible.

It all involves adding more to 's workload. If there were enough outcry from the community begging for something like this, who knows, he might just work on plans for it.... but I think the main issue is how to reduce and minimize the impact on the stuff he has to do as a result of such a change.

I don't mind the lack of it all that much, but I will say that it would be sort of cool to be able to throw on some thematically appropriate negatives in order to boost an item a little bit. 'Thematically appropriate' leaves a little too much room for interpretation, in my opinion, however. It would most likely have to be limited in the number of negatives as well, etc.

Yeah, exactly! Although, perhaps not as extreme as a sword trying to kill its wielder ... but along those lines ...

Do we know if this no-incentive-for-negative-properties is a NwN thing, or an Aenea thing? --yep, dave cleared that up for us! thankye, dave!--

I would love to see it change, and seeing as several of my PCs have custom item vouchers or rework vouchers in process, would be a cool thing to have...

-- dave beat me to it ... ok, i can see that point, i don't want it badly enough to have rescript everything, but what about a simple "pick a negative and get an *x*k value bonus, with a cap of, say, two negative properties. Even something that simple would be a step in the right direction, I think...

And I'm sure that could draw up some very clear guidelines for the process, just like he did in the rest of the Player Custom Item post referenced above...

It's been a few months since I've poked about in the toolset, but I do beleive there is a CEP property that adds a negative GP value (the converse to the standard "add value" (found on the first tab with the tag, resref, ect). If I'm not imagining that, there'd be no scripting involved, just would have to have decide on how much negative gold a given property is worth... add the negative properties to your item, and the additional negative gold value property adjusted to the proper amount.

The one problem I see though is....

Virtually every negative property can be blocked by an immunity, negative level/ability drain immunity being the primary source of "na na you can't make me suck". Player puts immunities on one item, and then goes and makes his or her other items more powerful but with negative props... but they don't really do anything due to the immunities... Or even just use stock items ingame for the immunties (blood armor, bone ring, you're good against a load of stuff).

I'd say, nothing really stops anyone from putting on negative properties as it stands... just, they don't make positive properties cheaper for you (nor do they subtract from the GP value of the item either, so it doens't "cost" you to add neg props).

Ye Manny, I thought about the immunity to various stuff causing issues with value too, but I can actually think of a couple of negative item properties that would make people think twice about using them.

1. Stormbringer property, starts doing x damage per round after so long without being fed souls.............and make x large enough (20 per round?) that noone will be able to out regenerate it. Before you take this property, spend some time as a vampire or shadowchild, drow will not give you the proper perspective.

2. Experience point eater. Each round it is equipped it eats x experience points.......say 20 per turn. That would make a multiplier expensive enough to make me at least think twice. (How many people have you seen wearing a helm of mind shielding?)

Good points, Skywatcher, and good item suggestions as well ... I propose that we ask the old to see if there's any way (with minimal resource impact) to introduce items like this into teh world somehow (not curses, but so much greater) - I'm thinking of Venger's really big Soul Reaver thing...

Hrmm, interesting ideas. Those can be scripted, but then again, I dunno if will do the work for that (adding scripted properties to customs beyond those already done like speedy boots and such).

The first one though... It wouldn't be too difficult actually to get 20+ regen per round, at least for certain characters. One of the cleric regen spells (forget which, I *think* monstrous) stacks with itself... +3 regen times 4 castings, that's half needed. Might be better to have it do the immobilize+damage thing that the soulreaver sword does (since the property reminds me of that anyway).... clerics and druids will easily be able to mitigate the damage, but the immobilization would be a real pain in the ass.

Ye, good point on the regen, I forgot about the regen spells stacking, 20 per round is probably possible for certain characters. Of course, you are then sacrificing a lot of spell slots to keep yourself healthy (think Elric of Melnibone, a powerful spellcaster who spent a huge amount of time and energy keeping himself healthy.......when Stormbringer wasn't feeding him on stolen souls.....)

But the immobolize thing would be hard to work around, so that would be a possibility. Would require a lot of thought on ADs part, to make sure there were no easy outs that devious Aeneans could think of heheh.

Cutscene immobilize. Works very well on the soulreaver.

cutscene immobilize? I don't remem the soulreaver freezing one in place...

It used to just knock ya down and deal some neg damage, until found Angelica running around with earthroot boots on and not killing anything with it It was then changed to a cutscene deal with magical instead of neg damage. It's been a while since I've been in game, so maybe he changed it again?

Hmm ... it has been a long time since I've used it ... it belonged to Sta'stillen, of all PCs ... and she got it when Crideas Bane was somewhere in his first tier of levels ... waaaaay back in about mid 2008, if my post-sleuthing serves me well ...