Some Barbarian Love

Had an idea for barbarians...

Rage is a great ability on low magic settings, but on mid-high magic settings like Aenea, the rage and greater rage bonuses become rather low value (and the penalty still applies regardless)

Suggestion... give some AB to ragers along with the usual rage properties (enhancement to con and str, will saves, penalty to AC).

can the rage scripts be edited at all?

Yes. nw_s1_barbrage.nss for barbarian rage, X2_S2_MghtyRage.nss for mighty rage. The two epic rage feats are added in via calls in the two base scripts.

Just wish Leto wasnt needed to make changes to base stats via scripting. DMs can use commands to do it... but scripts cant without leto.

Yes, stinks that leto is needed for that.

What idea were you thinking about with base stats and tweaking rage though? That's got me curious

When the script is called, check base STR and CON. Calculate what appropriate new value should be based on which rage was used, set base stats to that new base values.

When the effect fades, set stats back to original base values.

This would circumvent the +12 enhancement limit... but it wont work because scripts cannot set stats like DMs can.

A compromise could be to give the stat bonus for the initial rage, but affect the rest via AB, temp HP, etc. effects, giving all the rest of the benefits without hitting the stat cap.

That was my thinking... an AB boost or such.

The +4/+8 str and con boost IS nice, no doubt about that, but as the barbarian's only "thing", it'd be nice if it did a little something more.

The only thing you "lose" out on is the increase in weight carrying capacity. Everything else is virtually applied.

Lemme look...

I really hope rage gets a boost sometime in the future. I was thinking about making a barbarian when a thought came to me...I just wanna throw this out there...would it be a bad idea if barbarians got an animal companion as well, say from level 10 onwards? In my mind it really fits the idea of a barbarian but I just wanted to see what others thought.

I can see Barbairans with animal companions, sure. The only issue I see is that it would sort of impinge upon the "niche" of Rangers and Druids as the classes that give animal minions.

Animal companions are hardcoded to the druid and ranger classes.

So... multiclass.

Well, animal companions themselves are hard coded... But I could see it being done similar to the animator golems. Activated feat ability that summons a boar or a bear or such. It wont necessarily level up with the barbarian, but it'd be something.

So...

Simulate the STR and CON bonuses via an AB boost, damage boost, and temp HP, fort save bonus. This allows a barbarian to benefit from both raging and wearing a bunch of STR and CON gear...

How about adding an extra attack per round as well?

Ooooooooo!! I like this. Do you think its better just having one rage or selectable rages with different flavours such as all out damage, speed and durability for example?

I can't remember where I saw it... but I am pretty sure was cooking up something really really exciting related to Barbarians having "totem animals", and that choosing different totem animals would affect the mechanics and boosts for barbarians. I wish I had specifics, but the gist is, it was really really cool

daveyeisley wrote:I can't remember where I saw it... but I am pretty sure was cooking up something really really exciting related to Barbarians having "totem animals", and that choosing different totem animals would affect the mechanics and boosts for barbarians. I wish I had specifics, but the gist is, it was really really cool

No specifics yet, but the ideas have been percolating for a while. Link to abreviated to-do list...here.

Ah-ha! That was it, the darn to-do list

I had put a little thought into this totem animal idea... and while I didn't get specific with what animals would give what bonuses.... I did think of a way for the mechanics to be done.

Much like the current Dragonsoul class, Barbarians could use a VC command to set a variable for what totem they want.

Using LETO script, when a Barbarian reaches a certain level, they could "bond" with the spirit of that totem animal. This could grant some permanent stat boosts appropriate to the animal type (who knows, maybe even a thematically appropriate feat or two?). The initial boosts would be minor, but as the Barbarian invests more levels, the boosts could become powerful.

Rage could be tweaked somewhat, to allow for bonuses that wouldn't be completely hamstrung by the enhancement cap, as well. Using the AB boost, Damage boost, temp HPs, and fort save boost idea, the only things missing would really just be the carrying capacity (big freakin deal), and the increased duration for raging (which could have the duration calculation modified directly in the rage script to account for this), the rage ability could compare the base stat with the current modified stat, apply a bonus to the stat that gets it up to the +12 cap, and then apply differential AB, Damage, TempHP, and Fort save bonuses to make up the difference.

Complicated? sure. Would be a good way to make Rage actually worthwhile, though.

I'd just make it apply a static ab boost that scales with barbarian level. 1 + 1 per 4 barbie levels or something. I'd even be inclined not to cap it. Rage should be something fearsome.

blackdragon12121 wrote:I'd just make it apply a static ab boost that scales with barbarian level. 1 + 1 per 4 barbie levels or something. I'd even be inclined not to cap it. Rage should be something fearsome.

Well, the idea is for the barbarian to get the damage as well as the attack bonus, thats the intent of the Rage ability after all. There actually isn't any scaling besides Greater rage at 15th level.

As for the caps, we cant actually do anything about those. Enhancement bonuses are hardcoded to cap at +12 total for each ability, and attack bonuses are hardcoded to cap at +20 total. No way around them, or Rage wouldn't even need to be modified.

Doh, forgot to add my support for the Rage granting an extra attack per round, too

Kind of like a "furious flurry" thing. I like it.

daveyeisley wrote:Much like the current Dragonsoul class, Barbarians could use a VC command to set a variable for what totem they want.

Using LETO script, when a Barbarian reaches a certain level, they could "bond" with the spirit of that totem animal. This could grant some permanent stat boosts appropriate to the animal type (who knows, maybe even a thematically appropriate feat or two?). The initial boosts would be minor, but as the Barbarian invests more levels, the boosts could become powerful.

I plan on giving the totem feats during level up (perhaps adding "bonus" feats that allow the barbarian to pick only a totem, so I don't have to bother revamping the relevel script again), but I'm going to avoid permanent stat boosts with the totems via Letoscript. I'm going to have the totems kind of like optional toggles, where if the barbarian chooses which totem animal he's going to use (there will be a possibility of having more than one to choose from, based on Barbarian level), it will alter the barbarian's rage ability a bit and grant continual minor skill boosts. Something like...a 6th level barbarian could gain 1 totem animal, a 12th level barbarian could have up to 2 to choose from when raging, an 18th level barbarian could have up to 3 totem animals, then 1 more at 21st, 30th, and 40th levels in barbarian (up to 6 at 40th level).
Rough examples (don't take this one as what's actually going to go into the game):
Hawk Totem
- when toggled on, cancels any previous totem variables (only one totem at a time can be used)
- while toggled on, barbarian gains +5 to Spot skill, +10% movement rate
- while toggled on, during rage barbarian gains bonus +10 more to Spot and additional +20% movement rate (in addition to normal rage benefits)
Wildcat Totem
- when toggled on, cancels any previous totem variables (only one totem at a time can be used)
- while toggled on, barbarian gains +5 to Spot, Listen, and Move Silently skills
- while toggled on, during rage barbarian gains bonus +4 Dexterity plus +5 more to Reflex saves (in addition to normal rage benefits)

Animals up for consideration (natural, non-monstrous animals, with possible areas of effect, and yes, twice as many as a 40th level barbarian could have totems for...this way not every barbarian ends up the same):
hawk (spot, movement)
wildcat (spot/listen/ms, dex, reflex saves)
wolf (listen/animalempathy, movement, con, blindsight(scent)?)
tiger (hide/ms, str)
bear (discipline, con, fort saves)
monkey (craft/tumble/taunt, dex)
opossum (listen/search, con, poison saves)
snake (search/spot/ms, dex)
shark (search/listen, underwater bonus: attack bonus, blindsight(scent)?)
boar (discipline, con, will saves)
stag (spot/listen, movement)
bat (listen, movement, dex, reflex saves)

Totem benefits would not scale with level, unlike other rage benefits.

Rage could be tweaked somewhat, to allow for bonuses that wouldn't be completely hamstrung by the enhancement cap, as well. Using the AB boost, Damage boost, temp HPs, and fort save boost idea, the only things missing would really just be the carrying capacity (big freakin deal), and the increased duration for raging (which could have the duration calculation modified directly in the rage script to account for this), the rage ability could compare the base stat with the current modified stat, apply a bonus to the stat that gets it up to the +12 cap, and then apply differential AB, Damage, TempHP, and Fort save bonuses to make up the difference.

This is the plan. NWScript has a function that can return both the base and modified ability score.

Awesome. Extra attack would really really be helpful, too.

The totem skills wouldnt usually really be all that helpful in combat, for example. Extra attack would always be handy in a fight.

I'd give bat blindsight... I mean, really, what animal should have it more?

I'd not give a craft bonus (monkey), as that just seems a bit at odds with the raging out-of-control barbarian concept, but maybe that's just me

Basic barbarian rage adjustments just got a boost on my to-do list. As of a couple days ago, I have gained a way to script adjustments to base ability scores that doesn't involve booting a character from the game.

Now, I just have to work out the scripting so that it records beginning base stats before raging, applies the changes, then reverts to the last base stats when the rage is no longer in effect. (um, I wouldn't bother using an ability-increasing book while raging, since the change would then be lost when the rage ends).

If the information about the pre-rage base stat is stored as a local variable, you could then also store the during-rage total base stat as a local variable. This way, then rage ends, you can compare the original to during-rage values, and calculate the difference to determine what rage actually did for the barbarian (and store this value as well).... this way, if a tome was used during the rage, when the rage ends and the stat is compared to its original value, if that difference is greater than the stored rage differential, the script that resets the base stat can be adjusted for the tome.

In addition, as a safeguard, the tome scripts could be altered to store a local variable for the PC, then the rage scripts could be set to check at rage activation for the presence of such variable, and check again at rage-end for such variable. This way, no barbs would end up getting screwed out of a tome boost.

How long do rages last? Not that long, iirc.

Remember the old edition barbarians? The ones that were illiterate? I don't think it unreasonable to say that a raging barbarian can't concentrate on a tome long enough to actually read it and gain the benefit. In other words, I'd script the tomes to simply not work while the barbarian is raging. "Wait until you've calmed down, then try again" or something to that effect.

Seems simpler and less prone to potential calculation bugs. *shrugs* I'd personally do the same for anything else that gives a stat boost, including semi-class gains and leveling. Can't do it while raging. Otherwise, you can get someone qualifying for a strength- or con-based feat while raging, that wouldn't otherwise.

DUration is 7 plus constitution modifier rounds (con modifier before raging). Greater rage is 9+con modifier rounds (again con modifier before raging).

So, maybe 2 mins or so, max? I think players could be fairly asked to simply wait that long until the rage wears off, before reading a tome, no?

I'll just code it so that if the variable I'm adding for rage-increased stats is there, the tomes don't work (and get replaced by another since they vanish when used).

I've just finished the coding for Rage/Greater Rage and Mighty Rage for the next module update.

Vagabond did bring up an excellent point....

With the new extender allowing base stats to be edited while the PC is still logged in, it could mean that character could qualify for STR and CON-based feats and such during a levelup, when they would normally be unable to qualify without rage.

Might be a good idea to prevent levelup while raging, as well.

daveyeisley wrote:Might be a good idea to prevent levelup while raging, as well.

Thanks. Good idea.