A crazy idea

What if there was a slingshot that looks like a gun and was called 'prototype shotgun'?

I think the issue with that is....to get it youd have to replace the sling and i think theres only one sling model period, and therefore all slings would default to that model.

Theres a throwing dagger i suggested a bit back that replaced one of the shurikens in game. Not sure if was gonna use it or not. I play wow and i have a blood elf that uses a blunderbus and its kinda cute seeing an elf with a shotgoun

The only issue is that when you drop guns in a fantasy game...you instantly up the tech level of the world by bout 500 years...and then the questions start. If they got gunpowder...why havent they invented steam power, why havent they got cannons...why...you get the picture.

Usually puttin guns in a fantasy game create more trouble for a dm and his world then they are worth.

For some reason, gunpowder just doesn't function anywhere near Aenea. Quite frustrating for those giff that bring their spelljamming vessels into Aeneaspace.

But... in Faerun gunpowder exists...
it doesn't have much uses, other for for making explosive devices...
but the people who serve Gond, god of craftsmen, have adapted it so that it can be in used in smokepowder guns.
Unfortunatly, Faerun is a continent where frequent disasters, conflicts, and wars hhappen, and because of that magic remains primarily used, and because of the aforementioned, Faerun has only weaker spellcasters in number, as there is not enough time to study the arcane arts and teach it to others.

But basically saying, gunpowder is a very simple and primitive mixture, and as long as technology has reached the point in which a tinderbox for lighting a campfire has been reached, the world itself is already at the technological level to use gunpowder in explosives, but not transportation or other more complex designs.

For instance, people in Aenea will get the concept of gunpowder, will be able to fashion it, and make maybe a firework, or bomb. But they are incapable of making things other than that.

Oh, did I mention that they are already items that use gunpowder in Aenea? I noticed that there is an item called firebomb, a grenade-like weapon. Basically its a bunch of powder and rocks in a durable compressed sack, that when thrown, goes boom.

So... If gunpowder existed in around 1000 BC, I think its only fair to say that Aeneans have it as well, they, like us earthlings during 100 BC, merely don't use it much or for anything important, as Aeneas and Earthlings at the time have no need to study such powder and try to invent new uses for it.

Aenea =/= Faerun. Aenea =/= Earth. Aenea is a lot more enjoyable when one just accepts that stuff works differently here than in most places.

does =/= mean does not or averages?.... it's been a little while since I "spoke" in math...

=/= stands for "is not equal to"

ok, thanks... was just checking I had the correct meaning of Miow's post... Well said Miow, I think many seem to think that Aenea is a "continent of Toril" and not a "new seperate different world"... I found that if you let expectations of any DnD setting evaporate (such as Ebberon, Dragonlance or the Forgotten Realms) Aenea becomes twice as enjoyable.. .. something work, somethings don't..

Putting that in refferrence to the topic above though, Aenea's use of gunpowder has elevated to crude explosives.. Alchemist Dragon Egg anyone ?? ((Big Barrell of Boom))....

And back to veenkar's original crazy idea, a dwarven constructed "refined crossbow" (visual appearance to have no 'bow') would make a much better pistol/shotgun... even more so if just one dwarf crafted it.. the one weapon smith with a "forge" big enough to make them... ... .... .... .... ....

Ps a crossbow without the bow bit looks more like a gun:

Does that have gunpowder in the alchemist's dragon egg though? There are many other substances that go boom besides gunpowder. Phospherus reacts quite nicely when exposed to open air. mix that in with some greek fire, or something like that, you got a nasty gooey fireball brewing

Mhm a dvarven boomstick would be a nice thing i think

Could be a variant of Nitroglycerin, too....

I just assume it's magic. Makes it real easy

The dragon egg thing is a combination of alchemist fire, sawdust, and fishhead's oil. No gunpowder involved, just fire, wood shavings, and very potent alcohol.

On a side note...i was at a convention loonnnngg ago when gary gygax held a seminar t here and some fans brought up this very question.

He answered that on earth...where(supposedly) active magic doesnt exist.. science became the norm and dominant power.

On a world saturated by magic..where one could if a mage simply go *oogly boogly* and a fireball would fly and go boom or a stone would kareen into a foe...science would be unnecesary as magic is the norm not science.

Plus if you lean into the mage the ascension idea that belief is what powers the norm...science could never get a foothold...after all who would believe that by mixing some strange dirt together with bird crap you could make a bomb

It would be cool to have pistols and guns on aenea....it would make my day to create a Murlynd clone but you would need a solid historical reason for them to be there. Dropping em with no purpose would just belittle the entire concept and such.

http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Murlynd

The Amethyst Dragon wrote:The dragon egg thing is a combination of alchemist fire, sawdust, and fishhead's oil. No gunpowder involved, just fire, wood shavings, and very potent alcohol.

That would still be science.
Plus, firebombs have gunpowder in them, and can be found in Aenea.
Just check out some of the alchemist shops more thouroughly and you'll see this item.

RustyDios wrote:ok, thanks... was just checking I had the correct meaning of Miow's post... Well said Miow, I think many seem to think that Aenea is a "continent of Toril" and not a "new seperate different world"... I found that if you let expectations of any DnD setting evaporate (such as Ebberon, Dragonlance or the Forgotten Realms) Aenea becomes twice as enjoyable.. .. something work, somethings don't..

Putting that in refferrence to the topic above though, Aenea's use of gunpowder has elevated to crude explosives.. Alchemist Dragon Egg anyone ?? ((Big Barrell of Boom))....

I know very well Aenea is a world within some different universe, and not a continent on Aber-Toril.
However even in another universe things don't change very drastically.
Many of the same creatures, races, ideas, concepts exist in the Universe Aenea exists in.

Anthroplayer wrote:

The Amethyst Dragon wrote:The dragon egg thing is a combination of alchemist fire, sawdust, and fishhead's oil. No gunpowder involved, just fire, wood shavings, and very potent alcohol.

That would still be science.
Plus, firebombs have gunpowder in them, and can be found in Aenea.
Just check out some of the alchemist shops more thouroughly and you'll see this item.

Not science exactly... alchemy. Far less exact than an actual science.

Firebombs are really just greek oil.

daveyeisley wrote:

Anthroplayer wrote:

The Amethyst Dragon wrote:The dragon egg thing is a combination of alchemist fire, sawdust, and fishhead's oil. No gunpowder involved, just fire, wood shavings, and very potent alcohol.

That would still be science.
Plus, firebombs have gunpowder in them, and can be found in Aenea.
Just check out some of the alchemist shops more thouroughly and you'll see this item.

Not science exactly... alchemy. Far less exact than an actual science.

Firebombs are really just greek oil.

Wait, the description of firebombs say, "This is a sturdy leather sack filled with nothing more than a metallic powder and some hard rocks."
How can that be oil if there is no liquid involved? And you know alchemy is able to be non-magical. What about herbs, poisons, and other things from alchemy, that is all science, not magic.

* The Amethyst Dragon smiles, enjoying the science vs. magic vs. alchemy debate, before heading off to another thread.

Wait, the description of firebombs say, "This is a sturdy leather sack filled with nothing more than a metallic powder and some hard rocks."
How can that be oil if there is no liquid involved? And you know alchemy is able to be non-magical. What about herbs, poisons, and other things from alchemy, that is all science, not magic.

Feel free to replace the word "powder" with oil. Its an alchemical substance. Nothing says metallic at all. The rocks are also "black".

I never said alchemny was magical. I said alchemy is not a science. it might be considered a form of art... but not a science. It uses recipes not chemical formulae. Sort of like how acupuncture is a type of medicine, but not a science in itself.

Something can be mundane and non-magical, and not be a science.

I give up convincing others of my beliefs that alchemy is chemistry with different word use.
I also give up convincing that making steel requires advanced knowledge, as well as the other advanced crafts can only be done with some form of advanced knowledge.
I also give up adding any technology, simple or advanced, to Aenea, let alone making the idea that gnomes prefer to be inventors over mages.

In Aenea, from my perspective:

I see alchemy as a mix of chemistry and use of inherent environmental magic. Alchemists use both knowledge and guesswork to create substances that may or may not work. I think of it as "story chemistry"...it does what I say it does, not necessarily what actual chemical reactions do in the real world.

I agree that steel does take real knowledge to properly make. Things get simplified for D&D. So with the new crafting going in (in testing now at Bluebeard's if you want to try it out), a PC with even one rank in Craft Armor can turn iron ore into a bar of iron, then into a bar of steel.

Technology will always take a back seat to magic in Aenea. Gnomes are more likely to be alchemists than inventors...they are more magically-inclined in Aenea...the influences of Krynn end outside Aenea's atmosphere. While technology could have interesting outcomes, there are limits to the game engine that make it mostly pointless to spend much time on.

Anthroplayer wrote:I also give up convincing that making steel requires advanced knowledge, as well as the other advanced crafts can only be done with some form of advanced knowledge.

Anthroplayer, the possession of advanced knowledge doesn't necessarily equate to advanced technology. The ancient Egyptians build structures that we still don't fully understand, but their civilization was one that I'd hardly consider technologically advanced, at least by the connotations of these posts. The list can go on and on - the Mayan civilization is another example of this, as well as the construction/purpose of Stonehenge. All involved detailed construction and served detailed and advanced purposes, but were mostly devoid of advanced technology. My point is that possessing advanced knowledge does not require possessing advanced technology.

Anthroplayer wrote:I also give up adding any
technology, simple or advanced, to Aenea, let alone making the idea
that gnomes prefer to be inventors over mages.

I don't understand this desire to introduce technology into Aenea. Amethyst has crafted a brilliant, immersive world that is rooted firmly in the fantasy vein. To muddle it with the introduction of rudimentary modern technology would be, I feel, a disservice to the world itself. Man, don't worry about what it doesn't have, focus on what it does have. There's more than enough here to occupy/satisfy most NwN fantasy fans.

Now, Anthroplayer, please don't take this the wrong way, but if it is science fantasy that you seek, I'm sure that other servers exist out there that have that level of fantasy/technology fusion that you may crave. Aenea, however, is not of that mind, and probably never will be. I hope that Aenea can give you all that you desire, but some things are out of the hands of even the most illustrious Amethyst Dragon.

Interestingly...iggy's(ignatius my mage) *Moebius Tower* is a form of what he terms *Technomagic* The entire contraption is bigger inside that out and the center of it has a powercore...the controls have switches and glowing touchy/feely magic symbols.

But in the end...the entire thing is fueled by magic, controlled thru magic and uses a dimensional/spelljamming type of travel magic.

Its just a mechanical way to make a magical vehicle...in a small way how iron golems(Automatons) are made.

The whole alchemy vs. science mention earlier reminded me of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTf2EzTd1TE

It isn't really related, but it is informative and entertaining. Informataining, maybe. Entermativefortive even.