Feats for Longbow

I'm contemplating (read: agonizing) over my little Ranger's general level 24 Feat. I want to increase her skill with the bow, and have some questions that someone more experienced with Feats might be able to answer.

Weapon Focus Longbow - Is that +1 to attack really significant for making her miss less?

Improved Critical Longbow - Is Improved Critical really significant for the Crit range of a Longbow?

What other feats can increase her ability with the Longbow? Especially for missing less!?

She has no Fighter levels, her classes will be at this level Ranger 12/Rogue 11/SD 1. She already has Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, and Epic Prowess.

Thanks!

Hey Ramana, from the looks of your classes, you're making a DEX based fighter/rogue build. Without knowing more about your character, I think your best bet at this point is to take Greater DEX whenever you can. 2 feats of greater DEX will give you +1 AC, +1 AB (with all dex weapons), +1 reflex saves, and +1 skill to your hide/move silent and other some other rogue skills. You also want to be looking for lots of ways (gems, custom items, spell scrolls) to add damage to your weapons.

in my experience, both of those are good for archers. improved crit really won't help much if you're not already hitting most of the time, but if you generally tend to hit, it's really very useful, esp for longbow, which has a x3 crit multiplier.

as for being able to hit your target, every little bit helps. weapon focus is generally a good feat to have, but it's really not all that epic. HOWEVER, it opens up the epic weapon focus feat, which, at +3 total [combined w/the pre-epic weapon focus], can definitely change the outcome of an encounter.

finally, since you're at epic levels, the 'great dexterity' feats shouldn't be overlooked. for every 2 feats invested, you get +1 to hit, +1 ac, and +1 reflex save, which, imho, isn't too shabby.

now for a less orthodox response... if you haven't already used your releveling scales, you might want to look at the possibility of dropping one or two of your pre-epic feats and replacing them w/weapon focus and improved crit, depending on how attached you are to the ones you've already taken. this will also open up your epic feat list to allow you to start taking the 'great ...'s or else epic weapon focus much earlier on.

still on the subject of releveling, you could also rebalance the class levels. i don't know how you actually leveled your character the first time through, but there are 2 things to keep in mind w/regard to getting the highest bab-
- the number of pre-epic levels in a fighter class
the more pre-epic levels of ranger you have, the better your bab will be. if you can relevel and put all 12 ranger levels pre-epic, you'd have a higher to-hit mod than if you'd originally gone, say, 9 rng / 10 rog / 1 sd, w/3 lvls of ranger after going epic.
- whether your pre-epic per-class level is divisible by 4
due to game mechanics, in some cases you'll end up w/a higher bab if you go, say, 8 class1 / 8 class2 / 4 class3 pre-epic, than if you go 10 class1 / 5 class2 / 5 class3, for example.

I also like Imp Crit; usually get this one for my archers. And as mentioned, the possible +3 bonus from EWF can be of help in those occasions where AC is quite high.

But what I really enjoy is the Favored Enemy bonuses and Bane of Enemies adds that Ranger can offer; ranged and melee. These plus the Sneak Attack perks from Rogue offer quite a nice, effective archer package.

Yes, she's definitely DEX based. I've got her planned out to be Ranger 25/Rogue 14/SD 1. By level 40, she'll have a base DEX of 26, and always equips/ioun stones up +12 above that. Have taken +2 DEX from a Tome (and incidentally +2 to all other stats from Tomes). I could have shorted her a bunch of other attributes to get her DEX up to 30 at L40, but I wanted her to be rather well-rounded in all areas and skills and RP.

She dual wields with Finesse (Rapier/Short Swords) but would rather use Bow and Traps to keep her delicate little arse out well away from the enemy whenever possible. So Longbow over swords in feat preferences.

BTW, I do appreciate the explanation of Releveling optimization, and I do think that I will definitely follow those suggestions when the time comes, thank you so much. I was trying to not incur a multiclass penalty for as long as possible in the ordinary leveling process, is why I alternated Ranger and Rogue until after L24.

I've had a devil of a time choosing feats for limited slots, and so far, listed by character level, have:

L1 General - Luck of Heroes
L2 Ranger - FE Undead
L3 General - Dodge (for SD)
L6 General - Mobility (for SD)
L9 General - Point Blank Shot
L10 Ranger - FE Orcs
L12 General - Rapid Shot
L15 General - Weapon Finesse
L18 General - Aenea Fleet of Foot (a 'personality' choice, would lose this in Releveling)
L20 Ranger - FE Dragons
L21 General - Epic Prowess
L21 Rogue - Defensive Roll (for Epic Dodge)

Now I had something like this planned for the rest:

L24 General - Weapon Focus Longbow
L27 General - Blind Fight
L28 Ranger - FE Aberrations
L30 General - Called Shot
L32 Rogue - Improved Evasion (for Epic Dodge)
L33 General - Weapon Focus, Rapier or Short Sword, or Improved Crit Longbow
L34 Ranger - FE Constructs
L36 General - Improved Critical, Rapier or Short Sword
L37 Ranger - Bane of Enemies
L39 General - Epic Dodge
L40 Ranger - FE Outsiders

So I can't figure if I should swap the Weapon Focuses and Improved Criticals for Greater Dex?

I usually play STR archers, so not great insights here. But if you take more DEX, this will not add to dmg which may also be needed to get past other protections. Guess I am not an all eggs in one basket type of player.

I'd have to say.. dex dex dex... For hitting a target with a bow (unless your a clr/archery or monk/archer in which case I'd suggest Zen Archery plus Wis wis wis).... boosting your dex will grant you a better chance to hit, plus more AC (providing your not capped by a max dex thingi from your armour)....

Also, have you considered upgrading your actual longbow ?... A custom item token can get you things like "Keen" (which will still double your crit range ).. a nice +5 enhancement (improves your hit accuracy )..mighty (to add damage(and attack?) from your str).... and other such goodies....

Also think carefully about your arrow stocks... are you using the right type of arrows... +x attack, +x damage.... ?

Still the best advice from me for an archery build... dex dex dex ...

::EDIT :: I just checked and "keen" can NOT actually be added to any ranged weapons.. sorry for any confusion... ::EDIT::

So, after digesting everything here, I'm coming down on the feat progression below from here on. (In Releveling, not only will I strategically put the Ranger levels first, but I'll get rid of one of my pre-epic feats and be able to put something else there, like something for the swords, or maybe even Creature Lore if I find that it stacks will the rest of my rangery bonuses.)

L24 General - Weapon Focus Longbow
L27 General - Epic Weapon Focus Longbow
L28 Ranger - FE Aberrations
L30 General - Improved Critical Longbow
L32 Rogue - Improved Evasion (for Epic Dodge)
L33 General - Blind Fight
L34 Ranger - FE Constructs
L36 General - Called Shot
L37 Ranger - Bane of Enemies
L39 General - Epic Dodge
L40 Ranger - FE Outsiders

I think that these get me a bit more in AB and Crits than two Greater Dex. With 26+12 in Dex at L40, that seems not too bad for that armor-from-Dex issue, and then at L40 I might could buy more Dex to increase her armor and everything. She is more a hit-and-run fighter, either shoot-run-disappear or slash-run-disappear, so armor needs get more important when enemies both (a) last through the bow and traps long enough to get close, (b) also have True Seeing to come after her, and (c) can catch or shoot or spell her as she runs circles around them or fast away, or Shadow-Jumps away (transference/teleport/escape). She's not one to fight ancient dragons all by herself, one might imagine.

I'll upgrade her favorite bow (Fire Oak Bow, AB +3 Mighty +5, cold res 10, quillin's fire 5xday) to AB +5. Most of the time been using Everfull Quiver of Arrows with 5 elemental damages at 1d4 each. Sometimes use those arrows enhanced against Orcs, since one of her main occupations is killing Orcs for the Elves.

For her swords, I'll just rely on upgrading them, instead of taking specific feats for them. After all, she already has her Dex Finessing for AB, Ranger FE damages, Epic Prowess, Bane of Enemies, and not even to mention Sneak Attack. She's been using a +3ab Rapier with 5 elemental damages, and offhand short sword +1 either silver or with acid. I'm not sure if I want to keep the Rapiers forever, I've considered using one of those nice asian look Short Swords (looks like a mini katana, real sleek), and taking two of those up to AB +5 with 5 elemental damages each, and Keens. (I suppose I should put the Keens on first just in case that goes all cursedy.) If I use identical, finessable,and light weapons in both hands, which means really only Short Swords, then during Releveling I could take WF or ImprCrit Short Sword.

Thanks everyone for your help!


PS.: @Rusty: Did you actually mean you can put Keen on a Bow?

FYI for Reward Vouchers:

The Amethyst Dragon wrote:After the next module update, DMs (and the DM-possessed dwarf and Maker) will be able to put up to Mighty +20 on a shortbow, longbow, or sling.

Interesting. That's for all you STR builds that use ranged, eh. Frost Giant bows are Mighty+10, btw --my toon has one but never uses it. She'd have to buy STR stats after L40 to ever use more than her Mighty+5 Fire Oak.

And let me reask my P.S. up above: Does Rusty actually mean that one can put Keen on a Bow?

Erm... sorry.. my bad.... I just went and checked in toolset and NO, it appears that keen isn't on the list of item properties for bows (or any ranged weapon at all)... could have sworn I've seen it there previously....

Although I'm sure a bit of 2da tweaking by will put it on the list, if that makes it functional or not I'm not sure... the wiki does state that the property is for any melee weapon... the only way to test would be to change the 2da's and create a weapon for trials....

Maybe that should be put forth as a suggestion.... ... ??

Again ..sorry for the confusion and false information... I'm not known for getting things wrong, but after you questioned it , I went and checked....

Hmnn, yes, Keen was added to ranged weapons in itemprops.2da in the CEP version of itemprops.2da in cep2_top_v23, but overrides it in cep2_custom with his own version of itemprops. Not sure if that was planned or accidental Merging 2da's can be a royal pain in the patookus.

Thanks for the info and for your time in researching that point!

titus wrote:
still on the subject of releveling, you could also rebalance the class levels. i don't know how you actually leveled your character the first time through, but there are 2 things to keep in mind w/regard to getting the highest bab-
- the number of pre-epic levels in a fighter class
the more pre-epic levels of ranger you have, the better your bab will be. if you can relevel and put all 12 ranger levels pre-epic, you'd have a higher to-hit mod than if you'd originally gone, say, 9 rng / 10 rog / 1 sd, w/3 lvls of ranger after going epic.
- whether your pre-epic per-class level is divisible by 4
due to game mechanics, in some cases you'll end up w/a higher bab if you go, say, 8 class1 / 8 class2 / 4 class3 pre-epic, than if you go 10 class1 / 5 class2 / 5 class3, for example.

@ Titus:

Thank you for that valuable advice!

I did some figuring of a Relevel in my Character Build Calculator spreadsheet (the best thing for planning a character in NWN, pick it up here if you don't have it already).

And it turns out that, for a Ranger 25/Rogue 14/SD 1 build, I can gain +3 to BAB if I put at least 16 levels of Ranger before epic! From 26 to 29 at L40!

Makes me think of maybe using the first one of my two Scales soon, since L24 where she's at right now is my last level without a multiclass penalty, anyway.

de nada! glad i was able to get you a little boost, it hurts not to hit.

and thx for the tip on the character calculator, that's a helluva piece o' work!

RE: Re-Lvl - It is sometimes much easier to play a charcter build one way, and then use the Re-lvl scales to take another path (eg; warriors less squishy in lower lvls). This may be helpful when one class is more difficult to play just after start.

The only thing about the Character Build Calculator (CBC) is that it's hard to work in the attribute boost from Aenean Tomes.

But when you figure a Relevel with the Tome stats put into the initial attributes (it will let you do that), then looks like that INT boost is going to give me another skill point at each redone level!

And I figured with all those Tome augments, I could relevel her to go from 26 DEX to 30 DEX at L40! Wowie, and maybe open up some feats earlier.

Sweet!

I highly recommend getting bane of Enemies early in the build, simply to take advantage of all those Favored Enemies before end game.

I'd have to sacrifice a lot of Rogue skills and Sneak Attack (her forte) to do that, since I'm rebuilding a L24, and Bane of Enemies is hard to get before Ranger 23. But I'll take that into consideration, thanks!